1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. The Lucretius Today Podcast and EpicureanFriends Videos
  4. The Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Episode Two - The Achievement of Epicurus

  • Cassius
  • January 11, 2020 at 12:04 PM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Susan Hill
    Guest
    • October 3, 2020 at 8:56 PM
    • #21

    Sounds like Epicureanism needs its own glossary! Is there a good dictionary of Greek and Latin philosophical terms that makes this comparison between schools of thought? (I have one for Sanskrit..) I know there is a reference section for terms here. I will check that out too.

    By the way, being the newbie here, I know I must be asking questions that have been thoroughly addressed in other threads or readings. I take no offence in simply being redirected to those sources if I have missed them. I'm grateful for your patience. :)

    I am particularly interested the Epicurean theology, so I will be reading up on that.

  • Joshua
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    14,767
    Posts
    1,872
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    95.8 %
    • October 3, 2020 at 8:57 PM
    • #22
    Quote

    I found it interesting to look up the Latin for exactly what is being condemned, variously translated as Superstition, or Religion. It is actually "religio" which Martin Furguson Smith annotates as:

    "false religion," not "religion,"... The Epicureans were opposed not to religion, but to the traditional religion which taught that the gods govern the world."

    I believe that's from the Loeb edition?

    I think there is strong tendency to put the cart before the horse with that word. Whether religio should be translated as religion or superstition is of secondary concern. What Lucretius meant for us, his readers, to actually understand by religio, he laid out for us in the surrounding lines and with the story of Iphigenia.

    Religio is believing that:

    -Humans are hemmed in, above and below,

    -In a specially created world

    -By supernatural, intervening gods,

    -(And their oracles and priests),

    -Whose natures are threatening and capricious, and

    -Whose ultimate power is to torment us beyond the grave.

    To follow Epicurus is to believe that:

    -We are free agents,

    -In one natural world among innumerable worlds

    -(Where the gods, if they exist, do not create or intervene),

    -who ignore the priests, choosing instead the philosopher

    -whose foundation is material nature and whose end is pleasure,

    -and for whom death is nothing.

    I probably could have made that a little smoother, but I was aiming for symmetry.

  • Susan Hill
    Guest
    • October 3, 2020 at 9:05 PM
    • #23

    Yes, excellent, Joshua. Thank you for your precision! And it is the Loeb edition. Help me with this! It says it is a translation by Rouse but revised by Smith. When people speak of the Martin Ferguson Smith translation, are they talking about this one or a translation that was wholly done by Smith??

  • Joshua
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    14,767
    Posts
    1,872
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    95.8 %
    • October 3, 2020 at 9:13 PM
    • #24

    That's an excellent question, Susan! He is a translator in his own right, as well as the most recent editor of Rouse's translation.

    Here is his translation available on Amazon;

    https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Things-Lucretius/dp/0872205878

    It was published in 1969, and Professor Smith is still alive. So the text is not in the public domain—unless he's made arrangements that I wouldn't know about.

  • Joshua
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    14,767
    Posts
    1,872
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    95.8 %
    • October 3, 2020 at 9:15 PM
    • #25

    But probably people are referring to the Loeb edition, which ought to be the gold standard. I'm probably guilty of misnaming it myself.

  • Susan Hill
    Guest
    • October 3, 2020 at 9:26 PM
    • #26

    Oh good, I made a good choice, then. (I wanted that Latin on the facing page.)

  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
    Points
    39,167
    Posts
    5,469
    Quizzes
    6
    Quiz rate
    90.7 %
    • October 3, 2020 at 9:55 PM
    • #27

    You've done it again, Joshua ! You are a consummate wordsmith, and I so enjoy reading your posts! Pure pleasure!

    You are correct! Getting caught up in the weeds of vocabulary can be a distraction from what is conveyed by the words. "You're asking what kinds of evils can religio do? What religio is?" Lucretius asks. "Didn't I just tell you the story of Iphigenia? That's what I'm talking about!"

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,593
    Posts
    13,904
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • October 3, 2020 at 10:10 PM
    • #28

    I have the Loeb edition too, as it is great to have the facing page Latin. But it is my understanding (i hate to say, if Susan just bought the Loeb) that the Hacket edition (the black cover, at the Amazon link) is the most recently-updated version of Martin Ferguson Smith's work. I may be wrong, but I am gathering that the Hacket version is a revised and updated version of his work on the Loeb.

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,593
    Posts
    13,904
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • October 3, 2020 at 10:20 PM
    • #29

    Oh this reminds me too, that in my checking it always seemed to me that there ought to be a PDF version of a public domain version of the Loeb Lucretius, as I think several (at least two) editions have been published. But unlike many of the other older Loeb editions, I have not been able to find a PDF of it. Munro and Bailey are easy to find (links here: http://www.newepicurean.com/library ) but not the Loeb.

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. Is All Desire Painful? How Would Epicurus Answer? 13

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • May 7, 2025 at 10:02 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 9, 2025 at 5:11 AM
    2. Replies
      13
      Views
      304
      13
    3. Don

      May 9, 2025 at 5:11 AM
    1. Pompeii Then and Now 7

      • Like 2
      • kochiekoch
      • January 22, 2025 at 1:19 PM
      • General Discussion
      • kochiekoch
      • May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
    2. Replies
      7
      Views
      1k
      7
    3. kochiekoch

      May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
    1. Names of Bits of Reality 4

      • Thanks 2
      • Eikadistes
      • May 8, 2025 at 12:12 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Eikadistes
      • May 8, 2025 at 1:31 PM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      142
      4
    3. Eikadistes

      May 8, 2025 at 1:31 PM
    1. ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus 15

      • Like 1
      • michelepinto
      • March 18, 2021 at 11:59 AM
      • General Discussion
      • michelepinto
      • May 8, 2025 at 1:20 PM
    2. Replies
      15
      Views
      6.6k
      15
    3. Don

      May 8, 2025 at 1:20 PM
    1. Why pursue unnecessary desires? 74

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • May 2, 2025 at 12:41 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Rolf
      • May 8, 2025 at 12:17 AM
    2. Replies
      74
      Views
      1.9k
      74
    3. Joshua

      May 8, 2025 at 12:17 AM

Latest Posts

  • Is All Desire Painful? How Would Epicurus Answer?

    Don May 9, 2025 at 5:11 AM
  • Pompeii Then and Now

    kochiekoch May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
  • Names of Bits of Reality

    Eikadistes May 8, 2025 at 1:31 PM
  • ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus

    Don May 8, 2025 at 1:20 PM
  • Episode 280 - Wrapping Up Cicero's Arguments On Death

    Cassius May 8, 2025 at 11:54 AM
  • Episode 279 - On "Dying Before One's Time"

    Cassius May 8, 2025 at 11:15 AM
  • Why pursue unnecessary desires?

    Joshua May 8, 2025 at 12:17 AM
  • Author and Title of a Herculaneum Scroll Read

    kochiekoch May 7, 2025 at 9:45 PM
  • Welcome DaveT

    DaveT May 6, 2025 at 1:51 PM
  • First Picture of "Free Range Atoms"

    Cassius May 6, 2025 at 7:15 AM

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design