Epicurus' Birthday 2023 - (The Most Comprehensive Picture Yet!)

Wow thank you for all that work Nate! A table like that showing the dates each year into the future is definitely something we need to add to a resource list somewhere.

So the column labeled Hekatombaion 1 is the first day of the Greek New Year, and Gamelion 20 is what we believe is the actual birthday, or the 20th closest to his actual birthday? Maybe it would be a good idea to somehow annotate those column headings in case perhaps someone cuts and pastes the table and it gets separated from the text.

Are you all saying it should be January 20th?

Is anyone else concerned that we might end up creating a special "American" Epicurean annual celebration which would be on a very different date than what is currently happening in Athens?

I guess part of the question is "What is 'it'?" Does 'it' mean "our best and most accurate calculation of the day of birth" or "the day we should schedule a group celebration?"

Sometimes I even wonder what the "most accurate calculation" really means. Does it mean the day of the year in which the planets today are most closely configured around the sun in the same positions as they were at the time of Epicurus' birth?

Quote from Cassius

Maybe it would be a good idea to somehow annotate those column headings in case perhaps someone cuts and pastes the table and it gets separated from the text.

Great idea! I added a few annotations to clarify the columns.

Quote from Kalosyni

Are you all saying it should be January 20th?

Is anyone else concerned that we might end up creating a special "American" Epicurean annual celebration which would be on a very different date than what is currently happening in Athens?

Yes, I think celebrating Epicurus' Ceremonial Birthday (Gamelion 20) on January 20th is the way to go for anyone using the Julian calendar. Furthermore, it is the case that in 1987, 1998, 2006, 2017, 2025, 2036, and 2063, Gamelion 20 actually did/does fall on January the 20th, so there are a handful of days when Greeks who practiced according to the Attic calendar, and modern Twentiers who practice with the Julian calendar would have simultaneous celebrations.

Kalosyni, I note that while the Panhellenic Symposium of Epicurean Philosophy (PSEP) is held in February, it occurs on different days every year. For example, this year it was held on the 19-20th. In 2017, it was the 10-11th. In 2016, it was the 6-7th. In 2015, it was the 7-8th. These dates do not correspond with a consistent date on the Attic calendar.

Additionally, while the ceremonial celebration of Epicurus Birthday (on mid-Winter Eikas) sometimes falls in February, it falls in January more often than February. According to my calculations, Epicurus' birth year (Year 3 of the 109th Olympiad, which corresponds with Summer 342 BCE to Summer 341 BCE) would host Gamelion 7 on January 11, 341 BCE and would host Gamelion 20 on January 24, 341 BCE). Either way, during the year of Epicurus' birth, both Gamelion 7 and Gamelion 20 fell in the Julian month of January, so I respectfully disagree with the PSEP (and Wikipedia).

I am curious which Attic Year it is that the PSEP considers to be "the first ceremonial celebration of Epicurus' Birthday". It probably was not until 310 BCE or later that the annual celebration of Epicurus birth date (Gamelion 7) was re-oriented toward the celebration of mid-Winter Eikas (Gamelion 20) because this represents the beginning of friendship with the Lampsacus crew who would go on to carry his torch; Gamelion 20 of that year fell on February 11th 310 BCE.

We'll see how long this lasts ...

(Edit: the text was reverted to "February 341 BCE", which we have emphatically demonstrated is NOT accurate).

This is a really interesting discussion! If i recall, other than Elli, the person from Greece who has had the most to say about this is Panagiotis Panagiotopoulos.

I have messaged him and tagged him in the Facebook thread and will see if I can get his comment.

Quote from Nate

I note that while the Panhellenic Symposium of Epicurean Philosophy (PSEP) is held in February, it occurs on different days every year. For example, this year it was held on the 19-20th. In 2017, it was the 10-11th. In 2016, it was the 6-7th. In 2015, it was the 7-8th. These dates do not correspond with a consistent date on the Attic calendar.

Oh wow, thank you for pointing that out. So those dates don't corellate with the Attic calculations?

Quote from Nate

I think celebrating Epicurus' Ceremonial Birthday (Gamelion 20) on January 20th is the way to go for anyone using the Julian calendar. Furthermore, it is the case that in 1987, 1998, 2006, 2017, 2025, 2036, and 2063, Gamelion 20 actually did/does fall on January the 20th, so there are a handful of days when Greeks who practiced according to the Attic calendar, and modern Twentiers who practice with the Julian calendar would have simultaneous celebrations.

So then it rarely fell on or near February 20th?

I wonder if this might have any bearing on the timing in ancient times:

Quote

Between the Rural and City Dionysia, other two lesser festivals took place in honour of Dionysus: The Lenaia and the Anthesteria. The first took place in Athens in Gameliōn, roughly corresponding to January, while the latter was held each year from the 11th to the 13th of the month of Anthesteriōn, which was named after the festival.

The Lenaia was mostly an agrarian festival, believed to have included a procession, chanting, sacrifices, nocturnal rites and, possibly, special rituals for women. Beginning in the second half of the 5th century BCE, plays were performed, as in the City Dionysia, and awards were given, initially only for comedies, and later also for tragedies.

The Anthesteria were held for three days; the first one was called Pithoigia ("Jar Opening"), where libations were offered to Dionysus from the newly opened casks; the second one, called Choes ("Wine Jugs"), included wine-drinking contests while on the third day –Chytroi ("Pots")– pots of seed or bran were offered to honour the dead.

https://www.greeknewsagenda.gr/topics/culture…attic-festivals

Quote from Kalosyni

Quote from Nate

Oh wow, thank you for pointing that out. So those dates don't corellate with the Attic calculations?

That is correct. I suspect that the dates of PSEP's event are determined according to logistical needs rather than symbolic ones. For sure 02/10/17, 02/06/16, and 02/07/15 do not correspond with the same date on the Attic calendar.

Quote from Kalosyni

So then it rarely fell on or near February 20th?

Based on my calculations, that is correct: Gamelion 20 never fell later than February 19th*, and also, there are never more than two consecutive February Gamelion 20s in a row, from one year to another.

Gosh we just discussed this as recently as July? RE: Epicurus' Birthdate

And here's the 2019 version: Epicurus' Birthday Calculations

Your administrator is falling down on the job and we need to get his better organized. I will add this question to the FAQ and maybe designate one of these threads as a master thread and find a way to highlight it more prominently. I am sure this has been discussed probably at least once a year for the past five years or more and probably will continue to be asked, so it might even deserve a subforum of its own. Let me look into that.

For now here is a FAQ entry and I will feature the FAQ more prominently on the home page: http://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/index.php?faq/#entry-35

EDIT: Given that this question will keep getting asked, probably makes sense to open a subforum under the "Epicurus" section and try to move all the prior discussions from "General Discussion" into that thread.

Here's an organizational note: I think the use of a FAQ is a very good idea given that lots of people probably look for a FAQ rather than trying to use search or otherwise pore thru the menu system or follow links all over the website. The forum menu system also provides a topic index, but both the FAQ and the Menu get complicated fast. Hopefully it helps that they can be opened and collapsed like outlines.

For better or worse neither the FAQ nor the Menu system lend themselves to updating collaboratively. An admin has to go in and make each change, and that's probably too much trouble for them to be kept up to date easily.

On the other hand as new threads get entered into the "When was Epicurus birthday?" forum then that list will just grow and grow too.

So as a compromise what we can do at present for something like this is:

1) The FAQ is prominently listed in the resource section.

2) The FAQ contains a history section with the question "When Was Epicurus Born" with a quick answer but mainly a link to: (A) a "lexicon" entry that is editable by all the major participants in this thread which can hopefully be updated over time based on the most recent postings. I will expect to take care of that myself but others who have write access are welcome to update that as well. The FAQ entry will also link to (B) the discussion subforum which will continue to grow over time.

As additional note this is probably the best way to organize the FAQ in general. First provide a concise answer to a question if possible, but then point to a collaborative document editable by some of our core people, and also to the discussion thread that can be participated in by all registered users.

It is not far off till January 20th -- just under 2 months away and it falls on a Friday.

Are we going to plan anything special on the forum? A special youtube presentation? A panel discussion which we record? An "unveiling" of the Epicurus College?

I doubt we are capable of doing anything much other than a special zoom meeting. Maybe we should record a talk about the Greek calendar and why this is such a complicated question, but I am not sure anyone but Don and Nate is qualified to lead it and they would have to volunteer to be drafted for such a project. :-). I can provide the Zoom channel but we would probably need some graphics like those Nate has posted above.

(And when I write "record a talk" I meant record the zoom session, but of course if anyone wanted to record a special video that would be great too. If so we could watch it together and then discuss it.)

Actually, it just came to me that would be really nice to have a panel presentation by various people, just short segments where everyone explains a little about special projects:

Nate -- the compelation, etc/birthday calculations

Don -- on the Letter to Menoeceus translation/Wise man sayings

Cassius -- explaining about the forum, it's development and how it functions as well as the hopes for developing the Epicurus College

It could be just voice only, and then we post it onto Youtube. (just an idea)

I'm still in the process of reviewing.

The first 4 columns just organize the data Don shared: http://www.numachi.com/~ccount/hmepa/calendars/700.html.

I added together the fourth column with the second column to create the values in the fifth column; I used this online date calculator to generate the values: https://www.timeanddate.com/da…d&ay=&am=&aw=&ad=197&rec=

There may be more intricacies to their calendar than I am aware, so I'm investigating the system in more depth and confirming the work I've already done. I'll probably have more updates.