Posts by Kalosyni

Tonight Vatican Sayings 71 & 72!

Open to Level 03+ members (and Level 01 by pre-approval of the moderating team).

Tonight's Agenda:

1. Welcome
2. Discuss latest popular forum threads & latest podcast
3. Discussion on Vatican Sayings 71 & 72:

VS71. Every desire must be confronted by this question: What will happen to me if the object of my desire is accomplished, and what if it is not?

VS72. There is no advantage to obtaining protection from other men so long as we are alarmed by events above or below the earth, or, in general, by whatever happens in the boundless universe.

• We will continue with the same Zoom link as previous Wednesday night meetings.
• Level 03 members - those who haven't previously attended, please let us know here in this thread if you are interested, or message me.
• Level 01 members - message me or Cassius if you are interested in attending (to be considered for approval by the moderator team).

Are there any other special topics Cassius ?

Here is a picture of the event announcement, which would indicate that their Symposium was presented in the Greek language (so guessing that the report was an English translation kindly done by Christos).

14PSEP.pdf

The following post-event report was sent to Cassius from Christos Yapijakis:

14th PANHELLENIC SYMPOSIUM OF EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY
17-18 February 2024 - Cultural Center of Pallini, Athens, Greece
Co-Organization: Friends of Epicurean Philosophy
"Garden of Athens", "Garden of Thessalonica"
and Municipality of Pallini Under the Auspices of the Prefecture of Attica
Report on the 14th Panhellenic Symposium of Epicurean Philosophy
Information: http://www.epicuros.gr

A short report
In today's age of ongoing socio-economic crisis, brutal wars, intense religious fanaticism and imminent environmental threats, a top-of-the-world cultural event, the 14th Panhellenic Symposium of Epicurean Philosophy took place on the weekend of 17-18 February 2024 with the participation of about five hundred Greeks inspired by the enlightening and humanistic philosophy of Epicurus. This is a unique philosophical conference, as it is the only one organized worldwide dedicated exclusively to Epicurean philosophy. It is also the largest national philosophical conference and the only one in Greece that has been established since 2011 as an institution from the people rather than from the university philosophers. It is organized annually with free entrance for the public by the Municipality of Pallini and the Friends of Epicurean Philosophy "Garden of Athens" and "Garden of Thessalonica" at the Cultural Center of Gerakas, located within the ancient area of Gargettus, from which the philosopher Epicurus originated from.

This year's holding of the Panhellenic Symposium of Epicurean Philosophy is an anniversary, as it coincides with the 2330 years since the founding of the school of Epicurus, the Garden of Athens, in 306 BCE. The Hellenistic era, in which Epicurus lived, has many features in common with the modern age of globalization. As at that time Hellenic culture had spread in three continents throughout the Ecumene, the theatrical behavior of kings and their courtiers became a component of public life with the aim of impressing the crowds, there was an abundance of subjective opinions and rhetorical chatter, a great deal of commercial activity that created unnecessary desires, many philosophical views including skepticism about everything, many religious and mythological beliefs, as well as intense political and military confrontations. Epicurus faced all the conflicting trends of his time with extraordinary sobriety. He realized that life does not need empty beliefs but tranquility, so an empirical methodology of knowledge with criteria of truth, based on the objective observation of Nature and free thinking, was needed. The enlightener Epicurus generously imparted his way of thinking and knowledge to many, offering each man the opportunity to choose to live a blissful life by freeing his mind from foolish verbiage, supernatural fictions, irrational superstition, empty ideologies and mental imbalance.

For the fourteenth consecutive year, the Greek society will be given the opportunity to come into contact with the scientific humanism of the philosophy of Epicurus, which offers a timeless mental shield against psychological, social and cultural deadlocks, in the simplest yet most appropriate way of approach of a blissful life, with prudence, virtue, friendship and solidarity, even in difficult times. The organization of the Panhellenic Symposium with free admission for the public is our own contribution to the search for the psychophysical health and well-being of every human being.

With a friendly disposition
The Friends of Epicurean Philosophy

Program
Saturday, February 17, 2024
THE TIMELESS MESSAGE OF EPIKOUROS

15.30-16.30 Attendance – Optional Registrations
16.30-17.00 OPENING
Opening Proclamation Christos Aidonis, Mayor of Pallini
Regards Evangelia Pitsikali, Representative of "Garden of Athens"
Nikos Grekousis, Representative of "Garden of Thessalonica"
Representatives of "Gardens" of Greece and Cyprus
International Friends of Epicurean Philosophy
Message from Hiram Crespo (USA),
Message from Michele Pinto (Italy)
True Glory and the Garden of Epicurus Dramatic reading
(Seneca, Letter to Lucilius XXI – Translated by Leonidas Alexandridis)
Theodora Siarkou, Actress, Appointed Advisor for Culture, Historical Promotion and Tourism
Development of the Municipality of Pallini

17.00-17.45 A. 2330 YEARS SINCE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF EPICURUS’ GARDEN
Presidium: Leonidas Alexandridis – Dimitris Liarmakopoulos
The Garden of Epicurus in antiquity
Panagiotis Panagiotopoulos
Contemporary Garden of Thessalonica
Antonis Bilisis

Contemporary Garden of Athens
Christos Yapijakis

17.45-18.10 Break – Poster presentations

18.10-18.30 "Death does not concern us" Theatrical event
(From the work "A Happy Greek" by Christos Yapijakis)
Director: Giorgos Stavrianidis
Actors: Giorgos Stavrianidis, Yiannis Monos

18.30-20.00 B. ETHICS AND LIFESTYLE ADVICE
Chair: Christos Yapijakis – Antonis Bilisis
The human brain and the Epicurean Canon
George Chrousos
Epicurean Ethics today
Dimitris Liarmakopoulos
Epicurean Philosophy and modern Positive Psychology
Anna Pagoropoulou
The relationship between moral code and nature from Epicurus to the
present day
Dimitris Christakis
Lucretius, Advocate of Art, Philosophy and Science
Theodoros Papagelis

20.00-20.30 DISCUSSION
Chair: Christos Yapijakis – Antonis Bilisis

21.00 Banquet in a Tavern

Sunday, February 18, 2024
EPICUREAN PHILOSOPHY FROM ANCIENT TIMES TO THE PRESENT

10.00-10.30 C. SUPPORTING INFLUENCES ON THE ENLIGHTENMENT
Chair: Panagiotis Giavis – Nikos Grekousis
Helvetius – Holbach
Evangelia Pitsikalis
La Mettrie
Leonidas Alexandridis

10.30-11.30 D. EPICUREAN APPROACHES OF THE MODERN ERA
Chair: Panagiotis Panagiotopoulos - Dimitris Liarmakopoulos
The role of team and cooperation in Epicurean philosophy and in
modern times
Stratis Katakos
Epicurean view of human nature and condition
George Gonis
The empty speech of that philosopher, which no human passion cures:
The philosophical origins of modern Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
Konstantinos Marios Zafeiropoulos
Epicurean approach to Education
Antonis Bilisis
The Atoms in the Letter to Herodotus - Correlations with Modern Physics
Anastasios Liolios

11.30-12.00 Break – Poster presentations

12.00-12.15 Musical Pleasure Francesco Bertels

12.15-13.00 E. EPICUREAN LIFESTYLE
Chair: Christos Yapijakis – Antonis Bilisis
The theological elements of Epicurean Philosophy
Ioannis Avaris Kosmogiannis
Friendship as alternative politics according to Epicurus
George Iliopoulos
PA9. Epicurean cure for the fear of death
Konstantina Gavala

14.00-14.30 DISCUSSION

POSTER PRESENTATIONS
EA1. Criticism of idealist misinterpretations of Epicurean philosophy: Examples of an
eclectic and a neoplatonic book
Christos Yapijakis
EA2. Death in Epicurean philosophy
Ioannis Avaris Kosmogiannis
EA3. Comparison of Cynic and Epicurean philosophy
Efthimios Koliokotsis

And also thank you Bryan too!

Thank you Don, and this is especially relevant because we have five more Wednesday nights until we will be finishing up with the Vatican Sayings....and then we will be moving on to study fragments, which I am very much looking forward to because I haven't spent much time on them yet. Cassius is putting together a study list, and it will include various significant fragments from Usener's collection...and it will include some Philodemus fragments.

It appears that we will begin our new Wednesday night study focus on March 27th (if I have calculated correctly). More info will be coming out as that approaches.

Quote from Don

And this is exactly why those digitized papyri online are SO valuable. We all have access unimagined by earlier authors/scholars right at our fingertips.

In post 5 above Don you linked to a site but it doesn't have translations.

Then I also wonder if books written in later part of 20th century used old translations or their own translations.

I actually now have proof that Philodemus was influenced by the Stoics:

JSTOR article: Philodemus on Emotions

https://www.jstor.org/stable/43767829

I wasn't able to access the article but the Google entry says this:

Quote

Philodemus' concept of 'bites' may have been influenced by earlier Stoic presents many affinities with them. Like the Stoics, he considers 'bites' natur.

I read sometime in the last month regarding the idea that at a certain point there were various groups of Epicurean communities with differing beliefs (it was in a V.Tsouna book, but haven't been able to find it).

Below is a chart of possible "flavors" of Epicureans (but there could be more) and of course it could be that these are blended in various ways - and - what I write here is all conjecture, plus it could depend on one's circumstances what kind of lifestyle is pursued. The following are just a few ideas:

I have an unconfirmed idea that back in the original Garden, Epicurus and his Garden were mostly of the flavor of "Natural Science and Learning", and that it was only in later Roman times that that the other two flavors developed. And was the Epicureanism of Philodemus influenced by the ideas of the Stoics?

This brings up a question of are these unreliable sources still out in publication (which ones are they) and what is a trusted source.

Quote

Nonetheless, numerous editions of Philodemus’ works, especially early ones, are unreliable. Many were not based on a reading of the papyri themselves, but rather on the disegni, which are frequently wrong, and this led editors to be bolder about changing the texts presented in these copies, filling in gaps, and interpreting the results than they might have been had they read the papyri instead. In many such cases, better reading of the papyrus has shown that the text ran very differently indeed from the conjectures that have commonly served as the basis of reconstructions of the views of Philodemus and others. One common problem has been the mistaking of what turns out to be a citation of an opponent for something Philodemus himself maintains (and vice versa).

Philodemus (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

I just wrote this in a new list on my personal outline thread:

"Pleasure and pain has natural limits because it is subject to increase and decrease, but we can learn to extend feelings of pleasure through cultivating a feeling of contentment through the memory of past pleasures, as well as gratitude for healthy functioning and the experience of being without pain."

So happiness (as a feeling of mental pleasure) comes and goes, but we can learn to extend it through cultivation of contentment.

Major areas of "existential" guidance suggested by Epicurean philosophy:

1. Put effort into developing prudence and friendship because these two things greatly contribute to leading a happy life
2. God is not involved with humans, so we must do what we can for ourselves rather than pray to God
3. There are no supernatural forces, but instead everything has natural causes
4. The "soul" dies with the body and there is no afterlife, so we do not need to fear what lies beyond death
5. Make this life the best that it can be by aiming for complete God-like bliss
6. Pleasure and pain has natural limits because it is subject to increase and decrease, but we can learn to extend feelings of pleasure through cultivating a feeling of contentment through the memory of past pleasures, as well as gratitude for healthy functioning and the experience of being without pain.

Issues in Epicurean philosophy of mind and science 2: The method of multiple explanations

https://www.bsa.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Tsouna_010421_ABSTRACT-HANDOUT.pdf

And this:

Quote

When we deal with texts belonging to the Herculaneum papyri collection, we usually move from passages which are better preserved to those that are least well preserved. However, it has seemed best for systematic reasons to begin several chapters at or near the beginning of the extant texts that they discuss, although beginnings are typically more damaged than the columns that follow. When I proceed in this manner, I try to remain aware of the highly conjectural parts and, if possible, I interpret them in the light of better-known passages. Finally, my discussion of extremely fragmentary works—for instance, On Flattery—is informed by my understanding of texts which are in better shape and preferably belong to the same ensemble: for example, several continuous columns of On Arrogance. Even so, I should stress once more the tentative character of such interpretations.

I'm reading the introduction of Voula Tsouna's "The Ethics of Philodemus" (published in 2007)and found this regarding their fragmentary nature:

Quote

As mentioned, I have kept down the technical aspects of Philodemus’ texts and have treated them as philosophical writings to the extent that this is possible. However, there are limitations to that effort which are set by the peculiar nature of the evidence and, especially, by the fact that many passages are fragmentary, and their restorations partly conjectural. I have tried to avoid the phenomenon that David Sedley was the first to characterize as ‘bracket blindness’: i.e., the tendency to overlook the brackets surrounding editorial restorations of a word or passage and thus develop interpretations based on slim or even non-existent evidence. But sometimes I have taken the liberty to interpret heavily supplemented passages when the interpretation that I propose finds support in the context.

I have used square brackets in my translations to indicate those places in which a given passage has been heavily restored, and hence its translation and interpretation are largely conjectural. On the other hand, I have not marked with square brackets supplementations where I have a high degree of confidence in their correctness. Overall, I have indicated that not everything in Philodemus is at the same level of certainty, and, moreover, I have demarcated places in which the evidence is particularly precarious. But I have not undertaken to show systematically here the special difficulties and pleasures of working with the texts of the Herculaneum papyri, although I hope that I have conveyed to my readers some sense of that too.

Tonight Vatican Sayings 69 & 70!

Open to Level 03+ members (and Level 01 by pre-approval of the moderating team).

Tonight's Agenda:

1. Welcome
2. Discuss latest popular forum threads & latest podcast
3. Discussion on Vatican Sayings 69 & 70:

VS69. The ungrateful greed of the soul makes the creature everlastingly desire varieties in its lifestyle.

VS70. Let nothing be done in your life which will cause you fear if it becomes known to your neighbor.

• We will continue with the same Zoom link as previous Wednesday night meetings.
• Level 03 members - those who haven't previously attended, please let us know here in this thread if you are interested, or message me.
• Level 01 members - message me or Cassius if you are interested in attending (to be considered for approval by the moderator team).

Happy Valentine's Day!

Trying out this idea:

-- Perhaps there are multiple definitions of pleasure which are all correct, and it is all about common sense and making sure that we choose those things which will have a good outcome.

And further these thoughts come to mind:

When we have hunger or thirst, it is a pleasure to have that pain removed.

The enjoyment of stimulating pleasures of the five senses easily arises over and over again in the course of our everyday normal lives.

When we notice a moment that is free from both mental and physical pain, we can feel gratitude and reflect upon that moment as being a pleasure.

Happy memories both need to be made and remembered.

Friends (and family) are one of the most important ways of creating pleasurable moments.

There is no need to live in angst or agitation because these painful mental feelings have remedies.

Quote from Kalosyni

Pleasure" is the absence of mental pain (angst and agitation). Whenever we are free from angst and agitation (even if there is a feeling of pain in the physical body) we can call this state "pleasure".

I say this based on the story of Epicurus' letter right before his death, in which he was in pain but was happy because of the memory of his friend.

Quote from Bryan

That is true. Which is fortunate-- because such pleasure is only felt as a relief from pain.

This is also true: We feel total pleasure in most parts of our body, most of the time.

I don't think of smelling a rose as a relief from pain, nor is eating dessert!

Right now I am thinking of feeling as an "on" or "off" switch - when the light of awareness is "on" then I am either feeling pleasure or pain.

Also, here is a new idea (whether or not it is in alignment with what others think is correct:

"Pleasure" is the absence of mental pain (angst and agitation). Whenever we are free from angst and agitation (even if there is a feeling of pain in the physical body) we can call this state "pleasure".

Just trying this out, for now (but will probably come up with something else soon, lol ).

Quote from Bryan

the areas of active pain in my body have been limited to specific places and to specific times. Most of the time, most parts of my body are not feeling pain (even if my elbow hurts all the time).

Bryan , What would happen if you said this about pleasure:

...the areas of active pleasure in my body have been limited to specific places and to specific times. Most of the time, most parts of my body are not feeling [stimulative] pleasure.

Thoughts?