Posts by Kalosyni

Here is another good article about Existential Therapy, and the givens: "the tension between life and death, between isolation and connection, between freedom and responsibility, and between meaning and meaningless[ness]."

Facing the Unavoidable Challenges of Life

Some struggles are universal, but that doesn’t mean we are helpless.

www.psychologytoday.com

The Letter to Menoeceus brings up some aspects of the givens in addressing death...and also recommends to not engage in the overindulgence of the profligate (and overindulgence may be a distraction away from properly dealing with the givens). And the Letter to Menoeceus recommends studying the Epicurean philosophy with others of like-mind, which would be a way of both finding meaning and connection.

Letter to Menoeceus

Today another outline:

Why Study Epicurean Philosophy?

I. It is a worldview in sync with modern science which is free from supernatural and superstitious beliefs

A. Why this worldview makes sense:

1. In Ancient Greece Epicurus asserted atoms and void as the natural basis of a material world. In our modern times with modern science we have a much more complete understanding of the nature of things.

2. Epicurus presented the epistimological canonics of the senses, feelings, and anticipations as the proper way to know things. Now in modern times we have the scientific method, which also relies on observation.

B. Why this worldview is beneficial:

1. Understanding the material nature of things helps reduce fear because we know that things have causes.

a. We no longer have to worry that there are supernatural elements present in the world, or that a cruel God in heaven is the source of everything.

b. We no longer have to fear what happens after we die

2. We can focus on doing what we need to do in this lifetime and in this physical world, since there is only this life.

II. It is a way to decide what to pursue in life based on Nature's goal combined with the use of self-awareness and wisdom in decision making

A. What is nature's goal - we naturally move toward pleasure

B. Why follow nature's goal...because it is in line with our body and our mind

C. Guidelines for what desires to pursue - pursuing things which bring happiness both in the present and in the future (and also a list of necessities which bring well-being such as food, shelter, safety, belonging, etc.)

D. Self-awareness - the feeling of pleasure and pain and the ability to monitor these in line with a healthy mind in a sound body.

E. Wisdom in decision making - considering both the present and the future, and considering the overall well-being of our lives.

1. Sometimes we endure pain so that a greater pleasure will happen later, but we also choose pleasure now if it doesn't lead to a bad situation later.

2. We don't have worry that we have to prove to anyone that we are a good or worthy person, since life is to be enjoyed surrounded by those we love and those who love us.

Here is a bit more about De Rerum Natura in Italy:

Quote

Lucretius in Florence

The period in which Leonardo conducted his work as an artist and scien-

tist coincided with the rediscovery of Lucretius and various aspects of the natu-

ral philosophy of Epicureanism. Although the text of De rerum natura had been

circulating for some time in manuscript form, the editio princeps was only print-

ed in 1473 in Brescia and, judging from the great rarity of the edition, in very

few copies.3 Other editions followed in Verona (1486) and Venice (1495),

culminating in 1500 with the first of two by the Venetian printer Aldus Manutius,

this one edited by Geronimo Avancio. The first commented edition, by Giovan

Battista Pio, was published in Bologna in 1511.4 It was followed one year later

by an edition printed in Florence by Filippo Giunta that – thanks primarily to

the scrupulous work of Michele Marullo – offered readers a text purged of nu-

merous errors. The editor, Pier Candido, dedicated his work to Tommaso So-

derini, a Florentine statesman who knew Machiavelli well 5 and was a great ad-

mirer of Leonardo. Eight years earlier, in 1504, the Florentine mathematician

Raffaele Francus had dedicated In Lucretium paraphrasis cum appendicem de an-

imi immortalitatem 6 to Soderini (Fig. 1). This treatise was published in Bologna

by Giovanni Antonio Benedetti, the father of Girolamo Benedetti, who was the

printer responsible for the 1511 edition of De rerum natura by Giovan Battista

Pio, as well as numerous other scientific texts.

In the annals of Italian typography, the Lucretian revival concluded in 1515

with the second edition of De rerum natura printed by Aldus Manutius, this one

edited by Andrea Navagero. Two years before the death of Leonardo, during a

synod held in Florence in 1517 after the Fifth Lateran Council, the Church for-

mally banned the study of Lucretius in schools.7 Although this measure was less

restrictive than those applying to works considered to be heretical, De rerum nat-

ura would not be published again in Italy until 1647, in an edition prepared by

Giovanni Nardi, physician to Ferdinando II de Medici.

No attempts to translate the text of Lucretius are known of before 1530,...

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https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292309282_Leonardo_and_Lucretius

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/292309282_Leonardo_and_Lucretius

This looks to be a good article (PDF, by Marco Baretta, University of Bologna, 2009) about Leonardo da Vinci and includes history and reception of De Rerum Natura in Italy.

Excerpt:

Quote

Aware of the difficulties that may be encountered in any research on sources,

in this examination of the ties between Leonardo and Lucretius I have adopted

an approach that is intended to circumvent at least some of the obstacles men-

tioned above. While I have sought to identify the significant correspondences

between passages written by the two, it seemed to me necessary first and fore-

most to demonstrate that Lucretius was such a well-known author in the circles

frequented by Leonardo in Florence and Pavia that it would have been difficult,

if not impossible, for the artist to have remained unaware of the discussions of

certain themes that had been sparked by the diffusion of the poem. Therefore,

the historical and intellectual context in which Leonardo moved will form the

basis here for an interpretation of the text.

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Happy Birthday! Sorry this is a day late - hope you had a good one! (Hope to see you tonight at the 20th!)

Joshua now that the ancient Athenian new year is here, can we guess when and which games would soon be starting?

All about the Panhellenic Games of Ancient Greece

This table is from a Wikipedia article:

This is also a good article:

The Panhellenic Games of Ancient Greece

The Panhellenic Games in Ancient Greece included the Olympic Games, the Pythian Games, the Isthmian Games and the Nemean Games. The Sacred Games were religious

greektraveltellers.com

Cassius and I have been working on making some changes to our homepage - adding in some clickable boxes. As always, you can quickly go to the homepage by clicking on our logo on the top left or top center of every page. There are three new links -- for frequent users of the forum there is now a "Member updates page" and also a "Special Forum Resouces" page. Also check out our new "About Us" page which should be helpful for new visitors.

Let us know if you have any further ideas for improving the homepage.

@CailynKerr Welcome to the forum!

Thank you for your post over in the thread The Atlantic article on emotions in decision making.

If you feel up to it, we'd love for you to introduce yourself here in this welcome thread...share a little about yourself and/or how you became interested in Epicurean philosophy.

mflavia Welcome to the forum!

I was listening to a recording of the Torquatus section of Cicero's "On Ends" and the phrase "Natural Science" was used...which got me wondering...Why do we continue to use the word "Physics" when it seems that it should be "Natural Science"? Besides taking a major shift (for some of us) to say "Natural Science" instead of the word "Physics", it would make it much more clear if we could say that the three parts of Epicurean Philosophy consist of Natural Science, Epistemology, and Ethics. Thoughts?

I happened to find this overview, which for anyone who wants to brush up on (or simply find out about) some of Aristotle's views, then here is a very good quick read. And this touches on some of what Onenski was explaining in last night's Zoom discussion.

My blog, just posted, on "Inhabiting the World as an Epicurean":

Quote

In this post I take up point number 4, for both extroverts as well as the introvert "sensitive souls" among us.

As Epicureans how do we see ourselves in relation to the world? And how do we feel our own self-presence? How do we move through the world? How do we inhabit the world?

There is a Bible verse about "being in the world but not of it", but as Epicureans I would suggest that we take up the opposite idea -- of being in the world AND of it. We are not separate from the world and we aren't going somewhere better when we die. This is it. So how do we want to live this one life that we have?

Read the full blog post here:

Inhabiting the World as an Epicurean

In this post I take up point number 4, for both extroverts as well as the introvert "sensitive souls" among us. As Epicureans how do we ...

epicureanphilosophyblog.blogspot.com

Happy Birthday Eikadistes

Studying the Vatican Sayings - Join us tomorrow night July 5th, at 8pm ET - This meeting is open to all forum members. If you are interested and you haven't already attended a Wednesday night meeting in the past, please let us here know here in thread if you are interested in attending so we can add you into the group.

We will announce each Wednesday night's agenda over on this board:

Wednesday Night Weekly Epicurean Gathering - Via Zoom

A big Thank You to everyone who attended our Monday Night Epicurean Happy Hour! We had a great turn-out of 10 members. Being that it was a more informal meeting, and "happy hour", I was happy to see that some of us had beverages of choice to enjoy during the meeting. It did seem that perhaps eating while talking during a Zoom is a bit awkward or even difficult (seemed like I was the only one who was snacking). So perhaps we'll just do a "byob" announcement for the next one

Here is the speech I gave at the start of the meeting:

Are We Living Like the Gods Yet?

Living as the gods can be a poetic way to imagine the best life as an Epicurean. If we have come to a point in our lives in which we are easily able to fulfill all of our basic needs for both physical and mental well-being, have we arrived at our goal? Perhaps for some of us, in quiet moments, we feel that there is yet some unrealized necessity going unfilfilled. We have no master list of necessities which we must achieve. But we can continue to develop prudence as we navigate through our sense of pleasure and pain, developing and using our practical wisdom to guide us in how we make choices and avoidances.

Since we are here on earth, and not living in the intermundia as the gods do, we must work to make a living, and we know that living well requires us to put in both time and effort into maintaining our households - VS 41 reminds us: "One must laugh and seek wisdom and tend to one's home life and use one's other goods, and always recount the pronouncements of true philosophy."

Recently I've been contemplating the ending of the Letter to Menoeceus which reads:

"So practice these and similar things day and night, by yourself and with a like-minded friend, and you will never be disturbed whether waking or sleeping, and you will live as a god among men: for a man who lives in the midst of immortal goods is unlike a merely mortal being."

So here are two places in which the word "goods" is seen. And this could be a clue about the kinds of virtues which can be used as tools to move us forward in living a joyous and pleasurable life. I've mentioned prudence already, and it is referred to as practical wisdom in the Letter to Menoeceus. Also in that same letter we see that self-reliance is a good. VS 77 summarizes it best: "The greatest fruit of self-reliance is freedom".

Also, from VS 78 we know that friendship is considered an immortal good. The Torquatus section of Cicero's "On Ends" says this about friendship: "One topic remains, which is of prime importance for this discussion, that relating to friendship, which you declare will cease to exist, if pleasure be the supreme good, yet Epicurus makes this declaration concerning it, that of all the aids to happiness procured for us by wisdom, none is greater than friendship, none more fruitful, none more delightful. Nor in fact did he sanction this view by his language alone, but much more by his life and actions and character. And the greatness of friendship is made evident by the imaginary stories of the ancients, in which, numerous and diversified as they are, and reaching back to extreme antiquity, scarce three pairs of friends are mentioned, so that beginning with Theseus you end with Orestes. But in truth within the limits of a single school, and that restricted in numbers, what great flocks of friends did Epicurus secure, and how great was that harmony of affection wherein they all agreed! And his example is followed by the Epicureans in our day also."

And also in Cicero's Torquatus section it says:

"What a noble and open and plain and straight avenue to a happy life! It being certain that nothing can be better for man than to be relieved of all pain and annoyance, and to have full enjoyment of the greatest pleasures both of mind and of body, do you not see how nothing is neglected which assists our life more easily to attain that which is its aim, the supreme good?"

So I ask myself, have I realized that goal? And what about you? Have you realized that goal for yourself? I hope this serves as some food for thought, that it bolsters your spirits, and encourages you all to continue on with your studies and continue to seek to apply the philosophy to your own lives.

Quote from Don

Epicurus is on record for including both kinetic and katastematic pleasures within his definition of "pleasure." I have come to understand kinetic pleasures as those arising from factors and circumstances outside of ourselves; katastematic pleasures are those arising from within ourselves (such as tranquility, pleasurable memories, etc.). While Epicurus conveys (along with Metrodorus and Philodemus) that we can be more confident in katastematic pleasures, he clearly says that we should continue to "delight" in kinetic pleasures when they are available. It is the exclusivity of "getting stuck in" only seeing kinetic pleasures as pleasure that Epicurus is objecting to here with τὰς ἐν ἀπολαύσει κειμένας.

Don, just wanted to add in my thoughts here...I think I understand kinetic (moving, rising and falling) and katastematic (static, still, or smooth) in a slightly different manner. I am coming to this with an intuitive approach: both of these labels are describing the feeling nature inside the body-mind. So the experience of eating something with a high quantity of sugar or honey will always be kinetic, but if you only use a very small amount of sugar then it may be not create the same kinetic experience as compared to something with more sugar. Another example: eating whole grain/whole wheat bread with cheese when hungry could lead to more of a katastematic experience compared to eating a big bowl of ice cream which would cause a quick sugar spike and then a quick fall back down in glucose levels as insulin metabolizes the sugar (and thereby leaving you hungry again within a short period of time). So what I am thinking is that the "feeling-tone" and "excitement level" which arises while we partake of various pleasures AND it is up to each person to determine what feels best, such as if it is a dark and raining day then seeking some kinetic pleasures can help a sleepy person to wake up. Other people who feel anxious may need to turn toward katastematic pleasures.

I want say thank you, to everyone who showed up tonight. It was a very good discussion, with a total of eight members attending.

A further thought regarding VS 9, perhaps this is something of a "remedy" that you say to yourself over and over.

I particularly like this translation by Saint-Andre:

"Compulsion is a bad thing, but there is no compulsion to live under compulsion."

The only way to find out if it works or not is to try it. For example, I want to stop drinking coffee, so I could try for a few days repeating this to myself and see if it somehow actually helps me become more aware and able to choose. But realistically I need to have other options lined up, so that I know what to drink instead of coffee (I have several kinds of tea that I can drink instead).

Managing tech over-use --reasons to check in on yourself with this -- the mental pleasures of the use of devices may be masking other issues such as the short focus onto a device screen can cause blurry eyes, and it can also lead to not enough physical movement (leading to lack of blood circulation and fatigue). And there could be mental effects on the brain (which is something I haven't researched yet). If Epicurus were alive today, I think he would ask us: Are you missing out on some of the bigger pleasures of life by spending too much time on your digital devices?

Here is a very good article with tips on how to go about setting aside devices to bring in more analog time each day:

Embracing An Analog Lifestyle: Opt Out Of Overwhelm - The Tiny Life

How to pursue an analog lifestyle in a digital world. Advice and tips for living a slow life that’s hands on, present, and free from the overwhelm of…

thetinylife.com