Posts by Kalosyni

Regarding the good attributes and ancient Greek events and festivals during the month of Gamelion -- the month in which Epicurus was born (which coincides with the modern calander months of January/February).

"...Gamelion... is the month of the Halcyon Days, days of warm sun and calm seas, Alkionides Meres, as the Greeks call them, which appear in mid January. These glorious Halcyon days of the month of Gamelion, also played a role in the reason certain dates were chosen for so many ancient Greek feasts, festivals and theatre, which were always held outdoors."

Edit Note: After the initial posting of this, I further researched about "halcyon days" and I am finding mixed references to the exact times.

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Gamelion; the month of marriage, was the seventh month of the Attic calendar of ancient Greece which coincides with the modern day month of February.

The word derives from the Greek γαμηλίᾰ (gamēlía), meaning “wedding feast”, as it was the most popular month for weddings;

(γάμος – gámos – wedding in greek).

Gamelion:

A month of marriages and festivals

Not by chance was the ancient Greek month Gamelion the “Wedding-Month” a month for love, lust, weddings and festivals.

Ancient Greeks generally married in winter, in honour of the goddess of marriage, Hera (Juno) Greek Goddess of Women, Marriage, Childbirth, Children and Family, a time when, throughout the month, special sacrifices were made to the goddess.

As the ancient Greek wedding consisted of a three part ceremony which lasted for three days, held outdoors and usually at night, the weather had to be taken into consideration.

Gamelion, then, was the perfect month, as this is the month of the Halcyon Days, days of warm sun and calm seas, Alkionides Meres, as the Greeks call them, which appear in mid January.

These glorious Halcyon days of the month of Gamelion, also played a role in the reason certain dates were chosen for so many ancient Greek feasts, festivals and theatre, which were always held outdoors.

The sacred Marriage

Another reason the month of Gamelion is the month of marriages, is to commemorate the sacred Marriage, or Hieros gamos or Hierogamy, of Goddess Hera and Zeus; king of Greek gods.

The wedding took place, with much pomp and glory, in the Garden of Hesperides, where Gaia, Mother Earth, overcome with happiness, caused a tree to bloom with golden apples and was watched over by the dreaded fates (The Moirai) of ancient Greece, who were probably comparing notes with each other and deciding the destiny of this sacred coupling!

The wedding between Hera and Zeus was followed by a three hundred year honeymoon.

The Theogamia or Hieros Gamos, a sexual ritual, or fertility rite, which performs a marriage between a god and a goddess, an annual festival celebrating the marriage of the gods Zeus and Hera, a sort of wedding anniversary, took place in the temple of Hera in honor of the goddess as protector of Marriage.

The wedding of Zeus and Hera was celebrated at the Heraion of Samos.

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Read more about this at the Article Source

Also during Gamelion was the

Lenaia festival.From Wikipedia

: "The festival was in honour of Dionysus Lenaios.^[1] There is also evidence the festival also took place in Delphi.^[2]

The term Lenaia probably comes from "lenos" 'wine-press' or from "lenai", another name for the Maenads (the female worshippers of Dionysus)."

"The Mantle" article seems like a very good overview, and it is geared toward a modern understanding. There might be a few things I could get nit-picky about.

**Please Note: Given that this is a special 20th, we will begin a half hour early -- at 8pm ET**

The tentative agenda:

8pm ET -- we'll start with open conversation

8:30pm ET (approx.)

1) I will present a short reading in commemoration of Epicurus.

2) Anyone else who would like to share a short poem or short prose reading is welcome to do so.

3) And we will discuss the topic "Implementing PD 27"

9:00pm ET (approx.) -- We will finish off the evening with more open conversation, which likely will include discussion of our most recent and popular threads.

You are welcome to "bring your own beverages" for a more festive experience.

Any other ideas for the evening agenda? Please post here. Hope to see you then!

**Please Note: Our 20th Zoom is open to all Level 3 forum members. If you are not already a Level 3, but you are interested in attending, please private message Cassius or Kalosyni to find out how to become a Level 3 member.

Here is a new graphic I just made. I have incorporated the terms "extravagant desires" and "corrosive desires" from the new book "Living for Pleasure" by Emily Austin.

I am hoping for feedback, do you think this is helpful? Does it need anything different or anything added?

Here is an article exploring the validity of Hoffman's ideas:

A Contradiction in Donald Hoffman’s (Idealist) Fitness-Beats-Truth Theorem

Donald Hoffman claims that the “organism that sees reality as it is goes extinct”. So there is a reality after all? And how do this claim…

medium.com

Don looking at the above Latin Dictionary entry for "voluptas" -- it occurs to me that delight sounds like a mental pleasure, and where as plain old "pleasure" is in the body.

(Just my take on it).

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Quote from Kalosyni What good is knowing your destination if you don't know which road to take to get there?

Quote from Todd

It's a necessary first step to getting there, isn't it?

Would you blindly follow a road if you didn't know where it was taking you? Maybe you are simply enjoying the trip for it's own sake. That's fine, but still, you'd want to know that it's not taking you into the middle of a war zone (for example).

Yes! This could be a good topic for an illustration!

Quote from Cassius

But since, as I say, the issue is not «what is the means of happiness?» but «what is happiness and what is the ultimate goal of our nature?»,

btw, I have always had trouble with this. What good is knowing your destination if you don't know which road to take to get there?

You could also say that this forum is a tool and not the final goal -- which from all appearances we sometimes seem to: "inopportunely messed about by these people (being transferred from the place of the means to that of the end), are in no way an end, but the means to the end."

These lines by Lucretius point to the solution:

Our terrors and our darknesses of mind

Must be dispelled, not by the sunshine's rays,

Not by those shining arrows of the light,

But by insight into nature, and a scheme

Of systematic contemplation.

Is there anything else by Lucretius to add to this to be more specific?

I remember now the book "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. Wikipedia has a good overview:

The Demon-Haunted World - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So would this be considered a much more clear (and modern) understanding of what Epicurus was beginning to present, by his looking to nature? When we use science correctly, is it a much more complex system compared to Epicurean philosophy? Maybe it might be good to have a table to graphically show similiarities between Epicureanism and modern science.

Also, the "dragon in the garage" story in the above Wikipedia article shows how metaphor can be used to illustrate ideas.

Quote from Cassius

How do we illustrate through Epicurean principles how we got here? And how do we illustrate the solution?

Allegory is a way to present ideas in a hidden and coded manner -- and so it is a kind of esoteric knowledge -- and I myself prefer to be much more straight-forward. I am not looking to convince anyone of anything. But I would enjoy being able to explain the philosophy more clearly to myself and anyone who might already be oriented toward an Epicurean worldview. And as such, I see no need for allegory or parable.

Here is a better definition of allegory, and it give the example of "Animal Farm" by Orwell being an allegory.

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What is an allegory?

An allegory is a narrative story that conveys a complex, abstract, or difficult message. It achieves this through storytelling. Rather than having to explain the pitfalls of arrogance and the virtues of persistence, a writer can instead tell a tale about a talking tortoise and a haughty hare.

Humans naturally gravitate toward good stories. Have you ever noticed how fiction gets the most shelf space in the bookstore? Stories are compelling. By using a story to talk about big, abstract, or difficult ideas, allegory takes advantage of our inclination toward story.

Sometimes, the message a writer wants to convey is dangerous to talk about explicitly. In these cases, allegory creates distance between the writer and the message. One famous example of this is George Orwell’s 1945 novel Animal Farm. Orwell used a story line about farm animals to express his dissent toward the Russian government, a risky subject to discuss outright.

Source

Quote from Cassius

The Michelle Pinto graphic crystalizes the anti-supernatural aspect of Epicurean philosophy in the "one picture is worth a thousand words" way. Music is similarly effective.

I would call that an illustration of a passage in Lucretius. And I can definitely get on board with illustrations.

I am not sure we need allegories or parables for explaining Epicureanism. It might be best to be more straight-forward on most ideas within Epicureanism.

I found definitions:

"There are a lot of stylistic devices that are used in literature. Two examples are allegories and parables. Both tools are used to help someone present important messages, key lessons, and linguistic tools. Even though many people believe an allegory and a parable or the same thing, there are actually some major differences. An allegory is usually an image, poem, or story whose interpretation can communicate a hidden meaning. In contrast, a parable is a simple story that is used to illustrate moral or spiritual lessons." Source

This thread started out with the idea to create new forms of expressing Epicurean philosophy -- to make something analogous to Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" --- but yet illustrating Epicurean ideas. Then, since I didn't fully understand Plato's cave allegory, I got curious about it. After reading about it on Wikipedia, I then found this (a take-off from Plato's Cave) which I think could be food for thought as we think more about what allegory is, and if it could be used for Epicurean ideas.

Just for reference:

Allegory of the cave - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Edit Note: Aug. 27, 2024 - to find our most up to date info on our monthly meet-and-greet, click here.

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Welcome to the forum!
We are creating a new monthly "meet and greet" Zoom meeting to which we are inviting all recently joined forum participants at EpicureanFriends and any longer-term members who are interested in Zoom based Epicurean philosophy discussions. We will include a short presentation of basic points of Epicurean philosophy, by focusing on high points such as the three graphics we include in the new members welcome thread (our "Not Neo-Epicurean But Epicurean" statement, our posting policy, and the four ethical points that most distinguish Epicurus from other schools such as the Stoics). We'll also talk about why the forum was started and what we hope to accomplish. There will be time for Q&A and open discussion, and we'll aim to keep the meeting to about an hour in length. During the Zoom you are free to choose video or voice only.

Our "meet and greet" Zoom monthly meeting official announcement usually goes up about one week before the scheduled meeting. Meeting start time is at 8:00pm Eastern Time.

You can RSVP either in this thread, or in the given month's announcement over in this thread, and we will send you the Zoom link in a private message on the day of the meeting.

Some thoughts on PD39...since it has come up in this thread...and apparently I am incorrectly interpreting the meaning of this PD.

"The man who has best ordered the element of disquiet arising from external circumstances has made those things that he could akin to himself, and the rest at least not alien; but with all to which he could not do even this, he has refrained from mixing, and has expelled from his life all which it was of advantage to treat thus." PD39 (Bailey)

"The person who has put together the best means for confidence about external threats is one who has become familiar with what is possible and at least not unfamiliar with what is not possible, but who has not mixed with things where even this could not be managed and who has driven away anything that is not advantageous." PD39 (St. Andre)

This is one in which it would be good to be able to directly translate from the original. Here is how I interpret this PD regarding "external circumstances".There is a chance that an astroid will hit earth and cause an apocalypse. Also, a coronal mass ejection (CME) could wipe out all electrical systems, satellites, and the internet.

So I see this PD as dealing with threats and how you make peace with these threats -- the understanding of those threats -- what is true and what is not true about those threats. About a year and a half ago, my mom was telling me that an astroid was soon going to hit the earth. Her Christian friend had given her "reliable" information about the Apophis astroid, and that scientists had made an error in their calculations -- that the astroid was going to definitely hit earth. But instead of taking any "bait" on this, I calmly replied: "Oh that's interesting", and proceeded to do research about an nearby astroids. After my research, I was sufficently reassured regarding the unlikelihood of an astroid collision. (Also knowing that there is a still a future chance of impact by an astroid, but not for a long time to come).

Regarding coronal mass ejections, I also researched this, but what I learned was not encouraging -- there is a high likelihood of this causing problems if/when it occurs, and at what level of intensity. So this is one in which we should be ready to recognize the signs of this and realize how it will affect all of us -- and make peace with it. Enjoy life now, prudently, knowing that the continuance of life has uncertainties.

So I see this as expelling mis-information and understanding the natural world.

In a post-podcast Episode 155 discussion, the question came up: "do our senses correctly perceive reality?"

Here is an interesting idea that we have evolved for fitness and not to correctly see reality:

There are many videos of Donald Hoffman explaining this idea, a possibly some are better than others. If I find something in addition to this I will add to this thread.