Posts by Kalosyni

Okay, I have been pondering this (which I didn't fully explain in the first post above) ...bear with me here...I think that there is a time and place for a "smiling Epicurus"...

...but I am now thinking that perhaps that place is in one's imagination. Likely if Epicurus was teaching about the nature of things (atoms and void, etc.) then he had a serious expression. Smiling evolved from primates as a sign of submission, and even now a lecturer or presentor who smiles too much appears less confident.

So I am thinking now that the Epicurus who represents the teachings should be somewhat serious looking.

I often wish that the imagery of Epicurus had more "warmth", however smiling in portraiture is a late modern phenomenon which came about following advances in photographic technology.

Back in ancient times, for the likeness to be captured correctly I would imagine that people would sit and pose for the sculptor.

In early photography the subject had to hold still for a certain length of time.

Mark Twain had this to say: "A photograph is a very important document, and there is nothing more damning for posterity than a silly smile captured forever."

Likely people in ancient Greece felt the same (about sculptures), and this article sheds further light:

Why Is No One Smiling in Classic Portraits and Photographs? | Blog | Domestika

Learn why smiling was so uncommon in paintings and early photographs "Smile!" We listen to this phrase practically every time we pose for a photograph.…

www.domestika.org

Just found this article and wanted to post it (not sure if this is already on the forum) ...haven't fully read it yet but seems relevant to this thread discussion:

A New Defense of Hedonism about Well-Being

Quote from BrainToBeing

I think constantly in terms of "we" rather than "me". And, in the consideration of "we" I need to ask who would pay the price if I think only of me.

I've been thinking lately about modern civilization and the idea of "progress". Are we happier now than before we had all the modern inventions and modern medicine? Why are teens commiting suicide and shooters going to malls and killing people? Perhaps "progress" has not been made in the right places. People fear death and then try everything to prolong life, even though their quality of life is very unsatisfactory (if they cannot do everyday things and must have an attendent wash and help them toilet). Modern medicine is failing us, in that we live long but then are plagued by dementia.

So perhaps BrainToBeing your deep question is likely: "Who will take care of society and all the things that are required, including the self-sacrifice of leaders and workers, and all who do the work to make things "better"? In response I say: all over the world you can see that the political realm is full of corruption. And people are polarized between "religious-conservative "right-wrong" vs. democratic freedoms.

So I say the the "we" is not working. The "we" is corrupt. And we don't currently have a solution for this problem.

People ignore the fact that if they act in a manner in which others are harmed, then there will be bad consequences. The consequences I speak of are multifaceted. Epicurean philosophy reminds us of these consequences -- in which my long-term well-being will have a poor outcome whenever I cause harm to others - because by human nature we all have a drive to survive and stand up for ourselves when we are harmed (except for some who are so downtrodden that they cannot stand up for themselves). What ever we do will turn around and come back to us in some manner - and we can see that at play in current world events.

Today we posted a brand new YouTube introduction! And also updated some of the graphics on the page. You can check it out here:

I just found an NPR article and also a website called Project UnLonely... some excerpts:

Quote

The Three Types of Loneliness

Feeling lonely doesn’t just mean you feel alone. You can be with many people but still feel like you are not really connected to them. Just like there are many types of love, there are also different types of loneliness. Knowing the different types can help us address them effectively.

To find out what kind of loneliness you’re feeling, you can ask yourself a few questions:

1. Psychological - This might be the “flavor” of loneliness you’re most familiar with. How we feel about our social connections and close relationships can contribute to feelings of interpersonal or psychological loneliness.

“Does someone have my back?”

“Is there someone that I can tell my troubles to?”

2. Societal - This type of loneliness is all about belonging -- experienceing acceptance and safety. Societal or organizational loneliness can impact anyone in workplaces, schools, or communities.

“Am I welcome and valued?”

“Am I safe?”

3. Existential - Having existential thoughts or spiritual questions is a part of life, but if someone has these types of thoughts very often, or is upset by them, they can result in feelings of isolation and loneliness.

“Does my life matter?”

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The Five Territories of Loneliness

Trauma -

Trauma refers to a kind of harm that can be physical or emotional, happening suddenly or over a long time. It can be caused by stressful events like war, sexual assault, terrorism, childhood abuse, natural disasters, mass shootings or even the COVID-19 pandemic.

Illness -

Getting sick can sometimes make a person feel separated from their friends and family, as if they are dealing with life’s problems all by themselves. This can happen with many kinds of illnesses, including cancer, cardiovascular issues, obesity, and mental health problems.

Aging -

Older people might feel lonely due to loss of friends or family members and cognitive decline. They might also feel left out of society due to financial issues or health challenges. Additionally, they might feel a deep kind of loneliness as they think about the end of their life and what they will leave behind.

Difference -

Feeling different from others can make it hard to feel confident about who you are, leading to societal loneliness. This can be experienced by first-generation immigrants, members of the LGBTQ+ community, people of color, people with disabilities, or anyone who may feel different.

Modernity -

The modern world has changed the ways people socialize. Instead of meeting in person, we now have options like social media, chat forums, and online dating apps to connect with others. Even though these platforms can help us connect, they can also make us feel lonely.

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Modernity is a major issue, and makes it difficult to build and maintain friendships. The website Project UnLonely suggests making art and connecting through art (but that probably only appeals to a certain number of people who already have art as a hobby).

I do think it would be a very interesting project for us here on the forum to help facilitate the development of in-person Epicurean Philosophy meetings. We could create a guidebook for how to run the meeting as well as suggesting discussion topics, and also this forum could have a section for posting info about in-person meetings.

Part of friendship is creating the skills for making friends and being a better friend... and there is a Friendship subforum:

Friendship

Thank you Cassius for posting...I definitely want to use this to create a personal "Kalosyni version" and may use the platform Tiddlywiki

Quote from Eoghan Gardiner

Social media too, if you want to be filled with anxiety about your weight, finances etc... spending an hour on insta or tiktok is a great way to achieve it.

Some anxiety is your conscience warning you of possible pain in the future. Of course things on the internet can often be "over the top" and annoying.

Yet these are practical issues...when is comes to weight, modern medicine gives tips for a range of what is considered a healthy weight based on height and gender. As for finances, it is important to consider your long-term situation, and thus relieve the anxiety by brainstorming solutions to any improvements that are needed and thus increase confidence in a sense of long-term security ...and this includes knowing which friend or family member would let you sleep on their couch if things went really wrong for whatever reason (but hopefully you've got all bases covered so nothing really wrong will ever happen).

An fyi - I will be getting back to doing some refiling of threads in the coming weeks...We now have 700 posts in the General Dissussion Forum, and due to the complexity of the forum layout I know it can be hard for all of us (myself included) to determine the best place to post. This also brings up to mind that there could be the necessity for further reorganization of the forum, to make it easier to post and to find things.

Right now we have a large number of threads dealing with "Ethics" and "Lifestyle" and "Virtues" which are all related but currently filed under separate areas, and I will be thinking about possible ways to restructure the "Forum List" page so as to quickly find subsections.

So if something that you originally posted in "General Discussion" is no longer there, you can check your personal postings page (under your profile) to see where it has been moved, or send me a message with any questions.

Regarding the Stoics, we can look to the Wall of Oinoanda:

Quote

Fr. 32

...

If, gentlemen, the point at issue between these people and us involved inquiry into «what is the means of happiness?» and they wanted to say «the virtues» (which would actually be true), it would be unnecessary to take any other step than to agree with them about this, without more ado. But since, as I say, the issue is not «what is the means of happiness?» but «what is happiness and what is the ultimate goal of our nature?», I say both now and always, shouting out loudly to all Greeks and non-Greeks, that pleasure is the end of the best mode of life, while the virtues, which are inopportunely messed about by these people (being transferred from the place of the means to that of the end), are in no way an end, but the means to the end.

Let us therefore now state that this is true, making it our starting-point.

I started this list, but haven't yet added the text references:

Thread

List of Epicurean philosophical remedies

List of human life issues for which there are Epicurean philosophical remedies (there are specific Principal Doctrines and Vatican Sayings (etc) which address these issues).

There are Epicurean remedies for the following:

--anxiety that arises when realizing we are mortal and will one day die.

--anxiety that arises when we notice a drive to preserve our life for as long as possible.

--anxiety and fear that arises when we are sick and experience pain in the body (understanding the nature of pain).…

Kalosyni

November 8, 2023 at 10:52 AM

Started some Christmas cheer early this year:

As we enter into the holiday season, I've been contemplating Christmas...which is a Christian holiday, but which has been taken over by western culture and has come to be a time to gather with family and friends to celebrate the beauty of winter and the joy of exchanging gifts, regardless of whether or not one is still Christian.

So something that perplexes me is the gift giving aspect, because it feels like an obligation. And yet I do get joy from giving gifts. And then there is the "worry" of what to buy or (make a craft item) that will please the recipients.

And I don't want to buy into the commercialisation of Christmas...not only the noisy advertising that urges you to "give really good gifts" to everyone, but which also includes the over-indulgences in Christmas sweets (external food stimulus rather than actual internal hunger).

So then this comes down to a personal decision, as to how far to take things, and to really ponder what brings pleasure and joy (without stressing out on things).

And then to consider that gift giving is a way to express gratitude and an act which reinforces the mutually beneficial ties of friends and family.

And when I think of remedies such as "accustom yourself to see that death is nothing to us" ...this is a deep and long practice, that takes time. And you will obviously still feel your autonomic reflexes kick in to prevent you from being run over by a bus. So this remedy is instead for the quiet anxiety that may arise in the middle of night as you ponder your mortality. And also we may feel we have conquered our fear, only to discover that when faced with an incurable disease that we may have to "start over" in a sense with the process, and deal with mortality given the new information. This is just our humanness (since we aren't gods ).

This thread reminds me that we need a list of Epicurean "remedies" for anxiety and fear. (I may have started that already somewhere ). And then we need corresponding sections of text to accompany each.

Quote from Don

My understanding is that ataraxia has to be worked on, arises from study and reflection, but once you have rooted out those beliefs that cause anxieties, fear, dread and turbulence in the mind, they don't grow back.

 

Epicurus instructs how to remove the false beliefs regarding the fear of gods and the fear of death.

This post has more references:

Post

RE: The Meaning of the Greek Word "Ataraxia"

From a prior post by Don:

Feb 19th 2023

#2

ΑΤΑΡΑΞΙΑ (Ataraxia and related terms: Note that αταραξια is literally "ataraksia" even though the usual English spelling is "ataraxia." Therefore, words that have atarak- are directly related.

From ἀ- (a-, “not”) +‎ ταράσσω (tarássō, “trouble, disturb”) +‎ -ῐ́ᾱ (-íā); Antonyms: τᾰρᾰχή (tarakhḗ)

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, ἀτα^ρ-αξία

PD17 One who acts aright is utterly steady and serene, whereas one who goes astray is full of…

Cassius

December 3, 2023 at 7:13 PM

These Principal Doctrines touch on resilience:

PD39: The person who has put together the best means for confidence about external threats is one who has become familiar with what is possible and at least not unfamiliar with what is not possible, but who has not mixed with things where even this could not be managed and who has driven away anything that is not advantageous.

PD40: All those who have the power to obtain the greatest confidence from their neighbors also live with each other most enjoyably in the most steadfast trust; and experiencing the strongest fellowship they do not lament as pitiful the untimely end of those who pass away.

Quote from Don

I would emphasize that ataraxia is not dependent on external cicircumstances.

I would venture to say that ataraxia depends upon safety and security. Resilience is something different which would be the ability to cope during high stress.

Here is another idea for a "pleasure pie". And could adjust this as perhaps the pain should be an even smaller sliver -- A life in which pleasure predominates over pain.

Just a reminder that this next Monday is our "First Monday Epicurean Philosophy Zoom Discussion"...message me if you need the link