Posts by Julia

Quote from Twentier

Given that a potentially-psychedelic brew was ingested at the climax of a mystery cult, and it is written that he"is found to have taken part in all the traditional festivals and sacrifices. […] he says that he shared in all the festivals […] and that while he was joining in celebrating the festival of the Choes [at Anthesteria] and the urban mysteries [Attic Dionysia] | and the other festivals at a meagre dinner..." it would might been odd for him not to ingest kykeon.

If something like kykeon was ingested regularly, and kykeon can contain ergot, or potentially another psychoactive agent, then ... well, indeed, "knowledge of the gods" was "evident".

I agree. As per Wikipedia, it seems quite certain that Kykeon contained ergot, which might make Epicurus' idea of the gods and the intermundia much more conceptual-spiritual (for lack of a better word) than physical – which does not make them any less real, because we can sense them…?

For those wondering: Ergot is a fungus growing on cereal grains, which produces a wide range of bio-active chemicals such as ergometrine (used as a drug after childbirth, still an essential in many parts of the world), but most notably for our discussion here would be ergine, which is LSD minus the diethyl group, which in turn is like magic mushrooms' psilocybin plus a mild amphetamine, which I'd guess to be very vaguely comparable to being stoned-out-of-one's-mind on cannabis while also having ingested enough caffeine to offset the tiredness/numbness/lethargy/… that would induce. (Oh my, the weird knowledge my sponge-and-sieve brain decides to remember! *shrug*)

Quote from Twentier

the Epicurean gods jive with my self-induced psychedelic experiences more than they are cohering to any one animalistic conception I've tried to formulate.

I agree, because as mentioned…

Quote from Julia

It seems easy to bring this to congruence with my experiences of life and death, which is quite comforting to me

…I find even the idea of entirely denying any and all not-physically-explainable experience to be quite displeasing, or rather…

Quote from Julia

Even though I know that everything is atoms and void, and that therefore all my experiences must have just been unusual neuronal activity, there is a big, deep, and profound felt sense of importance and truth attached to the experiences, such that I find it hard to dismiss them.

…that even though they are physically explainable, I find their subjective weight ought to be honoured adequately, instead of being brushed aside as a mere biochemical fluke…

…at the same time, however, that feels like a slippery slope into theism, and as such, I'm quite happy with the gods having a blast in the intermundia, and my brain merely having "tuned into that other dimension" for a little while (which, physically speaking, is delusional – I'm aware of that, but I like the idea anyhow).

Quote from Twentier

I found one! Kykeon.

Thank you! I'll have a look into that

Quote from Twentier

not just directionless experimenting (usually unethical) for the sake of experimenting.

I think they're seeking to enhance themselves (artificial senses, nootropics, …), in the same way that I'm using tools (car, knife, …) – so I don't see it as directionless, I don't see it as experimenting for the sake of experimenting, and I don't think it can be unethical what one does to one's own body (unless whatever that is inevitably causes a considerable burden to others; such as a parent burdening a child by being an addict or by wilfully disabling their body). My basic rule would be: My body, my choice.

However, I think they're (almost always) misguided in their longing for such enhancements, because they seem to be (almost always) driven by limitless desires (vain & empty) or their underlying desire is natural-but-unnecessary and they got the risks wrong, skewing the results of their hedonic calculation (which, to me, doesn't make it unethical, it just makes it stupid ).

Quote from Twentier

- Similar to Charvaka and Yangism in their hedonist ethics and naturalistic physics. But they are atheistic and non-theistic traditions, so they reject any images of God as having validity.

Thank you for mentioning those! I found it interesting to read a short summary about them. To me, it is nice to know Epicurean philosophy isn't entirely a one-off after all.

Quote from Root304

I also have fortunately known, congregated and am among many poor and frugal folk who understand the true value of a friend. You can make so much happen in terms of material and moral enrichment even with meager means if you indeed hold your friends close and your enemies afar. Living one's life receiving and repaying wiselike, in excess and in kind is a most gratifying way to live under the present conditions.

Reading that, I couldn't help but instinctively reject the notion of friends, which then told me I have some more healing to do – and when I thought I have some more healing to do, I rejected that in turn, as an expression of assimilationism into the social construct of normalcy, as an internalised norm contrary to my own ways of being. It shall be interesting to see where I land on that subject a decade or so down the road, when the experience of friendship might be safe, affordable and attainable.

Quote from Root304

The "immortality" of Epicurean friendship surely extends to who and what I am in the world as I appear to others as well. My Father, who has past, was to me not his mind but the way he was received to me through the senses and emotions; smells, feelings, touch, voice, etc. The Epicurean soul must surely include the biochemical, mental and bodily memories between people as well.

To me, the members of family (who all have passed), are concepts, interaction models, "software", disembodied (which is probably both bizarre and unhealthy…). Either way, I don't perceive the world as physical as you do. To me, experientially, the world is just the medium in which patterns interact – the patterns being selves, conscious concepts, "brain software", or whatever you would want to call it. To me, this is the difference between a person (the entity inside a body) and a human (the animal). The soul, to me, is the mind of the body, as opposed to the mind which hosts the person. I suppose this distinction is hard to explain, let alone make visceral, to anyone who hasn't seen or experienced a body alive and well, yet devoid of a person inside. It's…like an abandoned care with the engine running, like a house with the lights on when nobody's home. Most people then just sit and stare, other's go through very basic motions cued in by their environment (eg they drink when presented with water, but their overall actions are utterly unplanned and directionless, like opening and closing doors for no apparent reason, taking objects them replacing them, just doing the habit-/instinct-based actions of whatever they find in their surroundings). Such a body, however, still has primitive feelings of active/tired, warm/cold, hunger/thirst, and pain/pleasure. Not sure if I explained that well…?

Anyways, this is why some parts of the interaction patterns which to me mean my family are alive as long as I will be: I absorbed those aspects of them and continue to repeat them (in modified ways), which metaphorically is sort of like replicating an inherited DNA of behaviour.

Quote from Twentier

Here's (above) an image that depicts (to me) the gods

Off topic, just curious: Did ancient Epicureans use mind-altering substances (other than alcohol), as the painting suggests?

Quote from Twentier

the gods primarily as mental concepts, rather than as physical object to which mental concepts corresponds.

If the gods were merely a special type of concept they would not be subject to the laws of nature.

Quote from Cassius

I suppose it's not inconceivable that individual gods might conclude after eons that variety really does not add to complete pleasure, and decide voluntarily to go out of existence.

That is why I cannot imagine the gods as self-aware and conscious, as indicated above. If the gods are more like fancy jellyfish, like reptile minds, bundles of instinct, then they can be eternally happy without being bored by the passage of time or the constant repetition. The question, of course, is whether something that has no self-awareness and isn't conscious in the way we understand it can be "happy" to begin with, but I'd say that every self-regulating system has a state which is "pleasing" to the system because it is within all the tolerance and reference ranges for its operating conditions: not too warm, not too cold, not too hungry, …

Quote from Root304

The theology could be a way to understand that blessedness comes in many varieties and is possible to nearly grasp in most contexts.

As much as I agree with the first half of that sentence, I don't see how blessedness "is possible to nearly grasp", shy of being a healthy heiress in a liberal country, rich enough to be free from worries (other than love) while still being poor enough to fly below the paparazzi radar. That would indeed be winning the lottery.

Tangent: Personal thoughts on Transhumanism

Quote from Root304

I find tech integration and most transhuman concepts beyond healing diseases to be pretty disconcerting.

I find them disconcerting, too – but at the same time, I also find them liberating. I wear glasses, know people with artificial sensory implants (for hearing, for sensing electro-magnetic fields, …), artificial joints, vessels and valves, artificially enhanced attention, executive function and memory. One universal of advanced civilisations appears to be that people raised within them are taught to favour modifying their environment (instead of submitting to it), and as a person, I reside within a human, but I am not it, and as such, my body is as much my environment as the flat I use to shelter it, and the society I use to shelter that flat. What, then, is the difference between a tattoo and a picture on the wall? What, then, is the difference between air conditioning and an implant? Both should be fine if they bring me pleasure – the disconcerting aspect is the new and severe power dynamics that can (but don't need to) come with this development. Will natural humans be at a disadvantage to enhance ones? They already are, so that is obvious, and nothing new – those with resources always used them to establish and enshrine their own advantages. But will we be at the mercy of tech corporations? Probably, but not necessarily. So I choose to hope for the best and ignore it otherwise, because I can't change the weather, politics, or the future (yet ).

Quote from Bryan

Certainly, the environment supporting gods is naturally occurring between the kosmoi by automatic infinite processes of nature

I like that idea (if you mean what I think you do ), but hadn't thought of it that way – what is the Epicurean position on these kosmoi? It seems easy to bring this to congruence with my experiences of life and death, which is quite comforting to me

(Even though I know that everything is atoms and void, and that therefore all my experiences must have just been unusual neuronal activity, there is a big, deep, and profound felt sense of importance and truth attached to the experiences, such that I find it hard to dismiss them. I have always stuck with the thought that what I experienced where, in fact, some kind of other dimensions or realms, simply because that brought me comfort and did me no harm, as I didn't let it affect my judgement negatively (I did let it affect my judgement only in reality-tested, hedonically-sensible ways, via insights, through lessons learnt).)

Tangent: Incorporeal entities vs patterns, and proper vocabulary for them

Quote from Bryan

Although the only incorporeal entity is the void, which cannot think or do anything at all. Nothing incorporeal can act or be acted upon.

Well that is technically correct (which means I was technically wrong), but…

Here's a more verbose elaboration of what I meant to say, and I realise what I say doesn't seem to align cleanly with Epicurean philosophy, but I do think that it actually does align. Maybe I'm just missing some vocabulary to express myself well in this regard? If so, please do teach me some words!

What I meant with "incorporeal entity", et cetera:

Is mathematics real? No, because nobody can touch it, measure it, sense it. It has no weight, no dimensions, doesn't age or swerve. Does that mean it is void? No, because we can use it, and so it has to be something. The same could be said about knowledge itself, language itself, about all concepts. What are concepts in Epicurean philosophy? Patterns of atoms? But then, what's the difference between a pattern and an incorporeal entity? Aren't both the same thing?

Software is a pattern that always has to exist in one or the other corporeal representation (various vastly different ways to code the same pattern, different ways to represent it are possible, from punch cards to rote memorisation of source code to flash drives). But the fact that it depends on having a corporeal representation doesn't make the pattern itself corporeal. I'm not quite sure how to describe that. (And I do realise that what I've just said doesn't quite fit into Epicurean philosophy…?)

The various "incarnations" (for lack of a better word) of a piece of software can act and be acted upon, but even if they were destroyed (overwritten, deleted), they could also be restored perfectly (reinstalled, restored from backup, reinfected) – and the places from which they were restored could differ, such that tape could be used to restore a hard disk, and furthermore the source of that restoration could even be "dead" (for lack of a better word), because it was merely a backup drive, not attached to any hardware able to execute it (bring it to life) – much like a virus is considered dead, because it has no own metabolism, but it still carries the DNA and everything else needed to infect a new host cell, where it will be brought to life and replicate itself.

The same processes which exist with software/hardware today could, theoretically, exist in nature, if one brain could copy (part of) its content into another brain through some kind of neural link (just like one human can program another (largely through language and physical acts)), and even more so should be possible with (quantum) computers (which could reside inside fancy space-dwelling robots). The gods could then be software which moves itself around – always needing to exist in one physical form or another, one arrangement of atoms or another, but not bound to any one of them, without becoming any one of them, just like a virus can infect many host cells without becoming the host cell, just like software can run on many different computers, just like ideas can spread from one human mind to another…?

When talking about the gods, I think we really need to stop conflating oneself with one's body.

Because the gods aren't troubled, I think they would inhabit machines which can maintain themselves, maintain each other, and, if ever needed, replicate somehow. Such a machine can be biological, like human bodies, but it can also be a fancy robot housing a quantum computer, and that fancy robot could actually be a space ship, travelling to harvest raw materials and energy, so it can keep running and renewing itself perpetually.

The god, then, would not be the space ship, would not be the robot, or the animal body. The god would be in the space ship, in the robot, in the animal. It would be the software that runs inside of it, the consciousness in its mind, merely inhabiting it, possessing it for a while, for fun, for pleasure and to sustain its existence. Just like software exists and lives in, but remains different from a computer. Just like I can inhabit and possess a costume to wear to a costume party, and will make certain experiences because of that costume. Experiences which I wouldn't make without wearing it, and which would be different if my costume was different – and which would have above-average likelihood to be similar if someone else wore the same costume.

To the gods, their corporeal existence is like fashion and style are to us. We get into trouble if we don't wear anything, but as long as we wear something, we can basically be whoever we want – including the same over and over, including someone new every day.

So my guess is the gods are incorporeal entities ("software") inhabiting fancy bio-mechanical space ships ("hardware"), which repair and replicate themselves. I would need to think about whether they are conscious, whether they are introspective, whether they are self-aware – I'm not sure if that is actually pleasing.

Why wouldn't they be sophisticated instincts inside mechanical jellyfish happily shape-shifting through space – no introspection, no sense of self as we know it?

PS: After all, simpler animals like reptiles can be happy and unhappy, feel pleasure and pain – but they're not self-aware or introspective, they're not equipped with a consciousness the way we have one. They're also not social animals. Why would the gods be different from a happy reptile in these regards?

These are arguments and actions which help me stay afloat and active. While I discuss the intended meanings line by line, no one line is meant to stand in isolation. The wording is intentionally short and formulaic, such that I can easily call to mind the intended meanings, without needing too much mental paraphrasing, because for this compilation to be practical in daily life, it has to be easy to think the concepts in contains (just like a car is a car, not a "thing with four wheels and a seat and windows and …", which would be very tedious and clunky to think every single time, instead of just thinking "car"). An alternative, more generally applicable line 3 is offered in post #3 below. With that said, here we go:

1. I want you to know that we care.
2. Self-love is an act of resistance.
3. Reclaim agency by recovering.
4. Imagination is discipline.
5. Discipline is freedom.
6. Freedom is pleasure.
7. Pleasure is life.
8. Life is finite.
9. Embrace it.
10. No dread of dissolution.

1. I want you to know that we care. This line establishes that someone else wrote this little text, is talking to me, and that I am part of a group. It expresses that the group cares about me, cares for me, and that they care about what I do, don't do, how I do what I do, and how I feel the while. It offers attachment and empathy by saying "I might not know the answer, but I know that being here with you is at least part of it." (Sympathy is cognitive and disconnected, it says: "It's not that bad. It could be worse. At least there's the silver-lining of xyz." Empathy is emotional and connected, it says: "I'm here. You are seen. I feel you.") It also calls to mind my responsibilities and the expectations I have of myself with regard to the people around me, and how I would feel if I were to let them down.
2. Self-love is an act of resistance. Shame is a two-person emotion, which says "You are wrong." (It is opposed to guilt, which says: "You did wrong." Guilt also does not require a social, interpersonal context; guilt is between the person and their conscience; not between one person and another.) This line helps me remember what the opposite of shame is self-love, and that I can act out this opposite out of defiance (against the people and circumstances which got me in my situation), even though I don't actually feel self-love yet. It also tells me that when I don't know how to love myself, I can simply act oppositional. This has the benefit of being a fight-response (of the Friend-Flight-Fight-Freeze-Fawn-Flop-Faint survival responses), which has agency (as opposed to Freeze-Fawn-Flop-Faint). Defiance is other-centric, which is theoretically bad, but an easier point to start from, because why would I be nice to myself while I'm still ashamed of myself? By being other-centric how I see myself doesn't matter. I should still do it, even though I don't think I deserve it. By being a fight-response, it also helps me repossess my own agency from those who took it. Eventually, an as-outside-so-inside fake-it-till-you-become-it effect happens and I've essentially tricked myself into actually believing I have worth, that I am worthy of care, and of my own self-love and self-compassion. By making it about resistance / defiance / opposition, my immediate dismissal and avoidance of self-care gets bypassed, and by living a self-loving life, I eventually accumulate enough experience to the contrary to mute and overwrite the previous knowledge and experience, making "I am worthy of love" not just dry cognitive knowledge, but a felt emotional knowledge. (That's the same knowledge-difference between "Speeding is risky" and "I just crashed my car.")
3. Reclaim agency by recovering. Not having agency, being disempowered, powerless, forced into a certain position or onto a certain track is something which can cause me to submit, accept, and make all the mental and physical arrangements to live happily in my cage, whatever it may be. At the same time, I don't want that. It's just something I do, force of habit. So this line reminds me that I can have agency now, that I can reclaim it and step into my life. I get to choose what will happen. I get to write the remaining chapters of my life. This is something which I know and don't know at the same time; it slips through my mind like sand running through my fingers. I still tend to default to a mental prison, so I remind myself that the door is unlocked. All I need to do is step outside, and only I can do that. (I need to change my own thinking, just like I need to do my own understanding of things, even when people teach them to me.) My next problem is not knowing how to do that. How do I step outside, reclaim my agency? I can do that by recovering, because luckily, I was living as though being an empowered adult at one point. While I actually had no power then, I did go through all the same motions – so all I need to do now is choose to do them. (With minor modifications, but they are still all fundamentally the same, and I know that I can do them, because I already did before.) I also know from fictional and biographical TV and books what being an adult entails and looks like, so I even have plenty of good and bad examples to learn from. If I do all the responsible adult stuff, if I do what recovery means for me, my life will once again be mine, and I'll have reclaimed my agency.
4. Imagination is discipline. This line reminds me that motivation is fleeting, and that I should rely on discipline instead. Motivation is a dreamy notion which comes when I'm in comfort and not doing the thing. Discipline is what I need to actually do the thing, even when it is uncomfortable. It also reminds me that I should not confuse discipline with fear (such as the fear of what would happen if I don't follow through). If I work from fear, I give up my agency, and easily slip into a fawn or freeze response. At best I still try to flee – but it is hard to get to anywhere specific if the activity I'm engaged in is running away. Instead, I should build discipline, which is based on goals. When I see, hear, taste, feel – when I imagine having attained my goals vividly, I will remember that I actually want to do what I was reluctant to do a minute ago, because in the equation of hedonic calculus it'll be worth it. To be disciplined, all I need to do is to remember my goals, to imagine them, to imagine having accomplished them; to call to mind and keep in mind all that having accomplished them will unlock in my life. When doing this, it is important to mentally move to and stay in the point in time after the action at hand, to the point in time when the object of desire has been accomplished (see here for more on this detail).
5. Discipline is freedom. I can either have all sorts of freedoms or I can be free from responsibilities; I cannot have both. So I accept responsibilities as a necessary evil to gain all sorts of freedoms as a reward. For example, I drive responsibly to keep my license, and I go to work, because money buys freedom of choice (what to eat and wear, where to live, leisure activities, and so on). Accepting responsibility to trade it for freedoms-of-all-sorts is why I should establish the goal-based discipline from the previous line; eg: My goal is a road trip, so I mustn't crash my car and need to earn more money, so I have to have the discipline to drive safely and go to work, and in doing that, I gain the freedom to go on my road trip.
6. Freedom is pleasure. Without these freedoms-of-all-sorts my life could be free from responsibilities, but it would then also be almost devoid of pleasure. Pleasure is fun and makes me happy, so I want to have these freedoms-of-all-sorts. The freedoms-of-all-sorts include being free-from-shame (shame is the social power which limits our actions and self-expression) and the freedom brought by agency, by stepping-into life (lines 2 and 3). Avoiding responsibility leads to a loss of pleasure by leading to a loss of the freedoms-of-all-sorts.
7. Pleasure is life. Just because my life is devoid of pleasure doesn't mean I'm literally dead. So "life" is metaphorical in this line: Being alive, actually living my life is the same thing as seeking pleasure (because what else is there? We seek neither pain nor virtue, and if we did, that wouldn't be a play that is pleasing for very long…). Because I don't quite know what "being alive" and "living my life" even mean, it comes in handy that I can measure how alive I am by how much time and effort I spend in the pursuit of pleasure. This way I can hold myself accountable, parent myself, and have a guide to all of my actions.
8. Life is finite. My body is ageing, so my time is finite. I want to be able to retire with some comfort, so I need to accumulate the necessary funds while I'm still well and able. I can disappear into and live inside my mind, and I actually like it there – so no matter my outside reality, I always have some pleasures left, because they're inside of me. However, I also like to feel a breeze on my face, to hear leaves rustle, and to watch birds. Compared to physical experience, it's never quite the same when I just imagine things, no matter how good I get at it. If I want to retreat into my mind now, I ought to remind myself that I can still do that once my body is frail, but that once my body is frail, I can no longer do many of the things which are goals of mine (imagination from line 4, alive-ness from line 7). So I should optimise my life in the outside, physical world (instead of building fancy things inside my mind) – and I should not waste any time, especially not in confusion.
9. Embrace it. After having been lost in thought about lines 1-8, this is to bring me back to my immediate surroundings and the task at hand. Stepping into my life means stepping up to the plate. Everything else is contrary to any number of the previous lines. Everything else is avoidance. There is no other way, and there is nothing to wait for. There is only my commitment to pleasure, and it implies a call to action. Apart from a commitment to action, this line also contains not just a mere tolerance of, not just an acceptance, but an embracing of that which is unpleasant-but-worth-it in life. Embracing life differs from enjoying life in that embracing it hints at a the more complex truth: There will inevitably be unpleasant tasks, even painful experiences, and avoiding them at all cost only leads to even greater pain. I choose not just to tolerate, not just to accept, but to embrace pain-that-is-worth-it, because the reward in pleasure will, in due course, outweigh my upfront payment in pain. This way, ultimately, I will enjoy life – but if I start with a focus on enjoying, rather than embracing, I end up avoiding what is unpleasant, I withdraw from the world and the inevitable pains accumulate, tainting what little pleasure might still remain.
10. No dread of dissolution. A memento mori – you might have heard it before – and also a reminder that I should not seek absolute security. Death is not just part of life, but it is also nothing to me. I should not stop swimming just because it puts me at risk of drowning. (I also shouldn't be reckless, but that's encapsulated in lines 1, 2 and 5: If I love myself and can thus accept that others care about me, I end up caring about myself for my own sake and for the sake of the others' feelings, which will make it easy to be disciplined and not throw away by recklessness the freedom of being able-bodied, the freedom of being financially secure, the freedoms-of-all-sorts.)

I've printed and hung those ten lines where I can see them while I write my journal and plan my next day in the evening. Whenever I get stuck or disheartened – during that evening ritual or throughout the day itself – I seem to find all I need by retracing the reasoning outlined above and by doing the actions implied in there (eg line 4: "Remember what all of this is for and vividly imagine it."). As part of the same evening activity, I write down which pleasures I work towards, as a list of less than a dozen bullet points, which came about by asking myself: “If I was dying, what would I most regret not having done or owned? If I was dying, what would I most want an honest obituary to say about me?” I re-write this little list every evening, even if nothing on it has changed, and I do so after I've journaled and planned out the next day. Journaling and planning first help me clear my mind, and re-writing my list afterwards ensures that it will be the last thing on my mind when I go to bed, such that I don't get lost in day-to-day minutiae and everyday worries, such that my brain will know which problems to solve using the dreams I'm about to have, and such that I remember why I want to get out of bed the next morning, even though it is warm, safe, soft and cosy – such that I stay focused on pleasure

Quote from Cassius

But you should *never* consider yourself "in trouble" for lengthy contributions!

Oh, I meant from real-life people, not from y'all apparently, skipping sleep to write lengthy forum posts is detrimental to performance

Quote from Cassius

the posh English approach scares me when I think about how they can read "Tea and crumpets at Two is Delicious" with exactly the same poshness and diffidence and tone of voice as when the read: "So great is the power of religion to prompt men to evil deeds."

That's true for every accent and language though, isn't it. They will all transport their stereotypes no matter what you say in them. If hillbillies colloquially used received pronunciation we'd be laughing at the King.

Quote from Kalosyni

there is so much here on the forum that it may not have been noticed

I agree. It might be worthwhile shifting more activity towards building/growing the wiki and other more organised knowledge bases. I already got in trouble for how much time I spent on some forum posts, so I doubt I'll be editing much myself, but I think that would be the way to go

Eg, have a list of narrations, a list of songs by genre, ….

Kalosyni Your ever-changing avatar pictures are all very pretty!

Robin Homer, a British voice over actor, has narrated Cicero.

Cicero - On the Ends of Good and Evil: Epicureanism

Part 1 of my narration of Cicero's On the Ends of Good and Evil. (De Finibus Bonorum et Malorum).Torquatus provides an outline of Epicureanism and Cicero giv...

www.youtube.com

Eikadistes Congratulations on the new site! I like it a lot – feels like an online Hedonicon, which is excellent, because that is bound to save me 396g on checked luggage. That's right, exactly 396 That pleasing number is what my scale says the Hedonicon weighs, and with Twentier's attention to detail, I'm sure he did it on purpose

Quote from Cassius

or the Dashboard (pretty much the same as "Recent Activities, but gives a selection of latest graphics etc from other areas of the forum.

For articles, files, and gallery, I use the RSS feed, but I realise that fewer people nowadays use those, so the Dashboard does seem handy.

Quote from Cassius

I really expect the welcome video (and associated Welcome page) added this past weekend will constitute what most people will check out first. [ Underneath the video it says Click here for Self-Paced Slides of the above presentation, or here for the Welcome Page with the text of the narration. ]

Yes. When I think back, if the only option I'd have had to make first contact with Epicurean Philosophy were a wall of text, I'd have said "Oi, no!" instead of saying "Oinoanda!" If the forums are the hook, it's front page must be the bait, and our monkey brains love going to sponge-mode, being told how things are (rather than having to think for themselves; evolution made geared us towards energy efficiency), plus getting that dopamine trickle from a few pleasingly moving pixels (as in the video). The video is very important to lower the threshold.

Quote from Cassius

regular users definitely should bookmark one of the other pages as the best way to check in on the forum.

I agree.

Quote from Cassius

That "Eye" icon is not really a light-dark toggle

I meant the "Preferred Color Scheme" (which is probably what you called "native dark mode"). I don't think I ever used that eye toggle up there, but what it switches to (statistics about myself) seems kind of…odd. Not sure what the value in that could be.

Quote from Cassius

I am going to go over right now and cajole the developer to see if he will turn that Eyeball into a light-dark toggle in the next theme update.

Now that would be most excellent!

Quote from Cassius

I'll have to practice how to say "Danke"

"Dangke schee!" in Pennsylvania Dutch, "Merssi viumau!" in Alemannic, "Villmools Merci!" in Luxembourgish, and – drum roll! – "Danke schön!" in German. An approximate way to pronounce that would be to say "done-KE Shane", with "done" as in completed, "KE" as in baker, and "Shane" as in as in the George Stevens western. I'm sure the Internet can explain that better than I just did

That works well! I think it is a good idea.

Downside: It has no "dark theme" option (the toggle for light/dark in the menu doesn't do anything), and it isn't handled well by the Dark Reader add-on (the black-to-white gradient in the background stays as-is). If a "dark" color scheme were added to solve that (which could simply use the same dark background as the "Inspire Light Garden" theme), then I'd be persuaded until then I'll stick to "Inspire Light Garden" with Dark Reader.

Both screenshots taken with Dark Reader enabled. Upper: Default theme without welcome box. Lower: "Inspire Light Garden".

Maybe I should clarify: What is the "Welcome Box"?

Is it the large chunk of text with the embedded Youtube introduction video, that is displayed when going to http://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/ ? I would concur that registered users should have a way to hide it. However, it never bothered me, because I enter the forums through a bookmark directly to http://www.epicureanfriends.com/wcf/notification-list/ so that I can see what I've missed and take things from there.

What I mentioned at one point was that I'm not a fan of animated websites, but the header/banner of "Inspire Light Garden" is so slow (and static in between) that I don't actually mind it much. That said, I still can only see one choice named/starting with "A - Default Theme" and I don't notice anything special about it?

(I'm back with "Inspire Light Garden" with Dark Reader, because the pictures in the banner make me happy )

Quote from Cassius

you can now change your style to "A-Default Theme Without Welcome Bar At Top."

I, ahm – I cannot find such a style…? It's in the list with all styles, right? Not a special button somewhere?

PS: I keep thinking we should have some original artwork somehow…not that I'd be able to do it – I specialise in prehistoric cave paintings, and by that, I mean stick figures – but…well…I don't know. With all this generative AI being hyped…can't we have a suitable background generated? I just think it should be somehow specific, instead of generic (stock photos, by their very nature, are all somehow generic).

Great job, Cassius. I like the video and fully concur with Tau Phi!

I do have, however, one remark which I feel is an important concern to raise because it regards the matter of factual accuracy: The only island not under the jurisdiction of any tax authority is North Sentinel, which is not a desert but is actually (sub-)tropical – and any trips there don't tend to end pleasantly at all!

(I like how you sprinkled taxes and the desert island in there – makes it all approachable and gives a friendly human touch )

Quote from Kalosyni

I am on a tablet that is running android, so I would need to see if there is an app for that.

The Dark Reader plugin is available for Firefox on Android.

Kalosyni The screenshot shows how the "Garden" looks like at my end, which is "dark enough" I think. Still has a little colour but muted, desaturated, thus no glare. I get this result by using "Garden", and using Dark Reader (a browser plugin) with my usual settings: +50% grayscale (range 0 to 100; this mutes the colors) and +10% contrast (range -50 to +50; this helps maintain good readability after the first step). (The other plugin settings are at their default values).

I suggest focussing on the normal, light theme variant to figure out a good default. Once that is done, one of us (like myself) can test it with Dark Reader (which is quite commonly used by people who want a no-glare web experience). Chances are good that it will just work well and look good out of the box. Then, we can use a screenshot of whatever Dark Reader generates to make a dark theme variant (such that those who, for whatever reason, do not use Dark Reader can get the same experience using the forums on-board tools).

PS: I like the theme as seen in the screenshot (as it is for me right now with using Dark Reader, which I use everywhere at all times anyway). I realise the muted colours (is that how one says it? I admit to having spent art class with maths homework…) might seem strange at first. When we switched to this (for the whole web, mind you) everything looked kind of boring, but by now, the normal web looks way too flashy and over the top -- meaning to say: It's just habituation. So…recap: normal light theme first, Dark Reader to generate no-glare screenshot, make dark theme variant to match; this keeps our limited time focussed on the typical visitor (light web, no plugins), ensures it works well for the typical no-glare web user (no theme changes, but Dark Reader plugin) and has something in store for the dark-theme preferring user who for some reason uses no plugins.

PPS: Might these photo AI tools come in handy somehow? Again, not a graphic designer just a thought that came up

The Inspire version called "Garden" is nice

Regarding animations: Please don't use an animated theme (such as the "Foxhole" theme, which is animated at the bottom/footer). They eat up battery while on the go, they can be laggy (or else cause high system load) in some browsers -- and they can be distracting and make it pointlessly harder to focus on what one is actually trying to do. I think the theme should have a be calm quality about it, and thus be without constant movement. (I'd prefer it if the title banner of "Garden" were be fixed, but because I can usually scroll down a bit to hide it, I wouldn't mint too much, either. The constant movement of Foxhole would drive me up the walls sooner or later.)