1. Home
    1. Study Guide
    2. Community Standards
    3. Site Map
    4. Quizzes
    5. Articles On Physics
    6. Articles On Canonics
    7. Articles On Ethics
    8. All Articles
    9. Elli's Blog Posts
    10. Kalosyni's Blog
    11. All Blog Posts
  2. Lexicon
    1. Lexicon Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Files
    4. Search Assistance
    5. Foundations
    6. Navigation Outlines
    7. Reading List
    8. Key Pages
    9. Last Changes
  3. Forum
    1. Full Forum List
    2. Welcome Threads
    3. Ancient Texts Forum
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Forum Shortcuts
    8. Forum Navigation Map
    9. Featured
    10. Most Discussed
  4. Latest
    1. New Activity
    2. Latest Threads
    3. Dashboard
    4. Search By Tag
    5. Complete Tag List
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Torquatus On Ethics
    3. Velleius On Divinity
    4. Diogenes Laertius
    5. Principal Doctrines
    6. Vatican Collection
    7. Lucretius
    8. Herodotus
    9. Pythocles
    10. Menoeceus
    11. Fragments - Usener Collection
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Latest Images
    2. Featured images
    3. Latest Comments
  8. More
    1. Featured Content
    2. Logbook
    3. EF ToDo List
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • FAQ
  • More Options
  1. EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Physics - The Nature Of The Universe
  4. True Divinity Is Incorruptible And Blessed - Nature Of Gods

On Deism, and Getting it Wrong

  • Joshua
  • August 15, 2019 at 7:57 PM
  • Go to last post
  • Joshua
    5 - Administrator
    • Advocate
    • Lucretius Today Podcast Co-Host
    • 2025 Contributor
    • Active Member 5 Years or more
    Points
    15,615
    Posts
    2,011
    Quizzes
    3
    Quiz rate
    95.8 %
    • August 15, 2019 at 7:57 PM
    • #1

    I often see allusions to deism in relation to the Epicurean perspective on the gods. The connection is superficially obvious, which I suppose is why it's often made--Deists believe in God, but one that is removed from human affairs. Epicureans accepted the existence of a higher order of conscious intelligence, but considered them/it to be removed from human affairs.

    But there's really a critical mistake here; the chief feature of the deistic god is that it is always, always the first cause in their cosmology. The Aristotelian Prime Mover. Deism specifically developed in order to hand-wave two problems in the observable universe; first, that there is something when there might have been nothing. Second, that the order of nature is never anything other than ordered and natural. So deism invokes the providential watchmaker; a supreme and generative intelligence that designed a stable cosmos, and then left it ticking on the bench while he stepped out for a smoke.

    Deism simply isn't deism without an act of creation. And that's why Epicureans were not and cannot be Deists. See, Epicurus solved the two problems of existence and order more elegantly; he proposed that the cosmos was made of atoms and void, and that atoms and void are uncreated and co-eternal--from everlasting to everlasting.

    The Epicurean conception of the gods is thus unique in all human thought. Most of the gods dreamt by the human mind were non-creating but constantly meddling. Some few of the gods which men have proposed were creating and meddling (an exceptionally bothersome lot). The prime mover of the Deists creates but does not meddle.

    Only the Epicurean gods were non-creating and non-meddling.

    -Joshua

  • Cassius
    5 - Administrator
    • I Too Am An Epicurean
    • Advocate
    • Lucretius Today Podcast Co-Host
    • 2025 Contributor
    • Active Member 5 Years or more
    Points
    115,674
    Posts
    15,933
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • August 15, 2019 at 8:47 PM
    • #2

    ABSOLUTELY!! It is amazing that so many don't seem to get this! Deist gods are just Judeo/Christian/Islamic/Abrahamic gods with a lazy streak.

    Epicurean gods are absolutely not supernatural in any respect. Most people seem to have great difficulty separating "supernatural" from "gods" but once you get that straight in your mind then I think most of the opposition to "Epicurean theology" evaporates.

    Most of the rest of the opposition (besides the opinion that "gods" must be "supernatural" is the epistemological issue that since we've never seen "gods" we can't have confidence that they exist. But I think Epicurus would say "we've never seen atoms but we have confidence that THEY exist."

    Once you focus on "nature never makes a single thing of a kind" and add that to "the universe is boundless in size" and "there are innumerable worlds with life" then I think Epicurus would say it's not only not a leap - it's an obvious deduction - that there must exist life forms which have evolved to the point of deathlessness and living in constant pleasure with no pains.

  • Cassius December 7, 2020 at 7:54 PM

    Moved the thread from forum Epicurean Divinity And Related Issues to forum Epicurean Divinity.
  • Cassius January 23, 2024 at 11:26 AM

    Moved the thread from forum Epicurean Divinity, Piety, And the Question of "Religion" to forum Nature Has No Gods Over Her.

Resources

  1. Getting Started At EpicureanFriends
  2. Community Standards And Posting Policies
  3. The Major Doctrines of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  4. Introductory Videos
  5. Lexicon
  6. Lucretius Today Podcast
    1. Podcast Episode Guide
  7. Key Epicurean Texts
    1. Chart Of Key Quotes
    2. Outline Of Key Quotes
    3. Side-By-Side Diogenes Laertius X (Bio And All Key Writings of Epicurus)
    4. Side-By-Side Lucretius - On The Nature Of Things
    5. Side-By-Side Torquatus On Ethics
    6. Side-By-Side Velleius on Divinity
    7. Lucretius Topical Outline
    8. Usener Fragment Collection
  8. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. FAQ Discussions
  9. Full List of Forums
    1. Physics Discussions
    2. Canonics Discussions
    3. Ethics Discussions
    4. All Recent Forum Activities
  10. Image Gallery
  11. Featured Articles
  12. Featured Blog Posts
  13. Quiz Section
  14. Special Resource Pages
  15. File Database
  16. Site Map
    1. Home

Frequently Used Forums

  • Frequently Asked / Introductory Questions
  • News And Announcements
  • Lucretius Today Podcast
  • Physics (The Nature of the Universe)
  • Canonics (The Tests Of Truth)
  • Ethics (How To Live)
  • Against Determinism
  • Against Skepticism
  • The "Meaning of Life" Question
  • Uncategorized Discussion
  • Comparisons With Other Philosophies
  • Historical Figures
  • Ancient Writers and Texts
  • Decline of The Ancient Epicurean Age
  • Unsolved Questions of Epicurean History
  • Welcome New Participants
  • Events - Activism - Outreach
  • Full Forum List

Latest Posts

  1. Should Epicureans Celebrate Something Else Instead of Celebrating Halloween?

    sanantoniogarden
    November 2, 2026 at 11:36 PM
  2. Welcome Thomas Karion!

    Patrikios
    November 2, 2026 at 3:57 PM
  3. Using AI to create flow charts of Lucretius' De Rerum Natura

    Kalosyni
    November 2, 2026 at 12:10 PM
  4. Happy Halloween 2026 - Death is Nothing to Us!

    Joshua
    November 1, 2026 at 11:42 AM
  5. Episode 358 - EATAQ40 - Continuing in Part 18 of Book 2 of Academic Questions

    Cassius
    November 1, 2026 at 6:14 AM
  6. Episode 357 - EATAQ39 - A Brief Word On Sextus Empiricus And The Goal of Skepticism

    Cassius
    October 31, 2026 at 3:46 PM
  7. Discussion of Article - "Aristotle - Introduction From An Epicurean Perspective"

    Cassius
    October 28, 2026 at 7:49 PM
  8. Discussion of Article - "Sextus Empiricus - Introduction From An Epicurean Perspective"

    Pacatus
    October 26, 2026 at 6:06 PM
  9. Heads up: New Book Coming in 2027

    Cassius
    October 26, 2026 at 4:29 PM
  10. Do some people still believe in fate?

    Kalosyni
    October 26, 2026 at 9:27 AM

Frequently Used Tags

In addition to posting in the appropriate forums, participants are encouraged to reference the following tags in their posts:

  • #Physics
    • #Atomism
    • #Gods
    • #Images
    • #Infinity
    • #Eternity
    • #Life
    • #Death
  • #Canonics
    • #Knowledge
    • #Scepticism
  • #Ethics

    • #Pleasure
    • #Pain
    • #Engagement
    • #EpicureanLiving
    • #Happiness
    • #Virtue
      • #Wisdom
      • #Temperance
      • #Courage
      • #Justice
      • #Honesty
      • #Faith (Confidence)
      • #Suavity
      • #Consideration
      • #Hope
      • #Gratitude
      • #Friendship



Click Here To Search All Tags

To Suggest Additions To This List Click Here

Tags

  • Gods
  • Deism

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
    3. Rules, Terms & Policies
  2. Lexicon
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.2.8
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design