Epicurus' Birthday 2023 - (The Most Comprehensive Picture Yet!)

That reminds me that I haven't updated the Facebook post I made on this, so to drive the numbers up even further it would be great to have a summary post here in this same thread to which I could point to as a follow-up

Quote from Don

monthly assembly of his school on the 20th was established.

From our point of view, what about Jan 20 vs Feb 20?

Quote from Cassius

Quote from Don

monthly assembly of his school on the 20th was established.

From our point of view, what about Jan 20 vs Feb 20?

No matter which date we use (the 7th, the 10th, or the 20th), all three of the proposed Gamelion dates in the 3rd year of the 109th Olympiad correspond to dates within our month of January. Epicurus was definitely born in January 341 BCE.

Based on my findings, Gamelion 20 corresponds with a January date more frequently than February.

Thanks again to everyone in the thread so far. I have updated the Facebook group with a new post:

I want to be sure these two comments (especially Elli's) get saved:

I thoroughly enjoyed reading through this thread (although I barely skimmed some of the more esoteric scholarship: especially Don  Eikadistes ).

What I really appreciate is that – even with the sincere investigation and really trying to come up with a meaningful date – it is all more in the nature of fun, rather than fundamentalism. (No mention of an Epicurean hell for getting it wrong – unlike some religious disagreements over calendar issues! )

I do have a prophecy, however. This will not be the last year of discussion on the matter – whatever date you hit upon: you all would just miss the sheer pleasure of it too much!

Quote from Don

Besides there are *plenty* of other obscure details that I want to sink my research teeth into

I understand, my friend! I understand! I am slogging (pleasurably) through the dissertation you cited on Greek gardens -- and might actually have a new poem inspired thereby (whether or not it's worth anything will take time to tell).

Quote from Don

hear you, but, honestly, I'm getting pretty confident and satisfied with what we've come up with on this thread. Besides there are *plenty* of other obscure details that I want to sink my research teeth into

Possibly the key to avoiding the necessity of going through this year after year is being sure that we have an indepth article well linked and very findable to short-circuit the question next time it is asked. I will make sure this thread is findable and we'll highlight it as an article at some point as soon as Don gets finished with the other five articles he is working on. I do think we want a nice colored chart along the lines of what Nate has started for (a few) past and future years and we'll highlight that too.

Quote from Cassius

as soon as Don gets finished with the other five articles he is working on.

I see I forgot to put a smiley face on that. I decided to come back and do that! :-). We were talking in the podcast recording today about how some of the texts indicated that some members of the garden needed more motivation than others and I would not want to imply that Don needs more motivation! He's already tackled learning Greek and poring into the birthday issue and otherwise leaving most all of us in the dust.

Quote from Cassius

Quote from Don

I do think we want a nice colored chart along the lines of what Nate has started for (a few) past and future years and we'll highlight that too.

Here is **another updated** draft. Please offer recommendations to organize the formatting.

"τῇ προτέρᾳ δεκάτῃ τοῦ Γαμηλιῶνος" as it is mentioned by Epicurus in his Will, maybe it does not mean in the 20th day of Gamelion.

Moreover, I read in a book that there are some academic scholars that do not take Meritts' speculations to be entirely correct concerning the ancient Greek chronology/calendar.

The book is here: https://books.google.gr/books?id=pmxPEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA55&lpg=PA55&dq=δεκάτη+προτέρα&source=bl&ots=um1N9lGmQ1&sig=ACfU3U2KAlKuUifHl0d3p5rtAj6DZLlxVQ&hl=el&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwik4N3lw_P7AhUn_7sIHVYjDaQQ6AF6BAgdEAM#v=onepage&q=δεκάτη προτέρα&f=false

But anyway I think that in Epicurus phrase "τῇ προτέρᾳ δεκάτῃ τοῦ Γαμηλιῶνος" in greek adjective "τῇ προτέρᾳ" the subjective noun that is meant is the word (day/ημέρα) and if we want to be precise in the translation from ancient to new greek we place always the subjective noun in parentheses. So, this phrase by Epicurus goes like this "τῇ προτέρᾳ (ἡμέρᾳ) δεκάτῃ τοῦ Γαμηλιῶνος" and in english is: [The (day) before of 10th of Gamelion].

E.g. from the historian Thucydides we read [ τῇ δὲ προτέρᾳ ἡμέρᾳ ξυνέβη τῆς μάχης ταύτης...]

in english: [The day before this battle it happened...]

Thucydides mentions the word [day/ἡμέρᾳ ] next to the word [before/προτέρᾳ].

Αnd "προτέρᾳ" means "The day before" of 10th of Gamelion" so, IMO Epicurus points out one day before of 10th of Gamelion which is the seventh month as it is said correctly OR Epicurus points out that "προτέρᾳ" maybe means "early in this day".

Since it would be wrong - when Epicurus used with so much clarity the greek words and the experiences/facts - to use two different dates with the same meaning.

"ταῖς εἰκάσι" that means the 20th of every month.

Conclusion: IMO Epicurus in his Will uses two different dates and not one and the same as the 20th. Another day (another fact of experience) was the celebration of his birthday; and another day (another fact of experience) was the celebration of memory (that usually is connected with a death, i.e here of Metrodorus) and that was of every 20th "eikas".

So, IMO in his Will Epicurus points out clearly that when I will die too, you will have the same comemmorate date of remembrance that we were celebrating the death of Metrodorus and this is the 20th of every month.

Concerning "eikas" this also means and something else that is very important, and as Epicurus points out too: So true/real friends we were me (Epicurus) and Mitrodorus to each other and you epicureans will celebrate our commemorate date/remembrance the same date.

Don, I hit the "thanks" on Elli's post but even after reading your very detailed article I don't have the Greek ability (or maybe the brainpower) to assess any of this on my own. Are the two of you together?