The Art of Frugal Hedonism

    Prudent YOLO I guess! It's strictly true that we only live once, so that isn't the issue.

    And I think it's just clearly wrong to say the "longest life" per the letter to Menoeceus.

    So we're left with "the most pleasant in subjective terms" i guess!

    So maybe even prudent YOLO does not get to the heart of it quickly - I best we can get more suggestions on the right modifier if we get creative - but it needs to be something about the "most pleasant"

    For myself, I take the word frugal in a practical sense, not in any sense of a moral virtue in itself. (I have known people who are pretty severe “frugalists” and seem to take great self-righteous satisfaction in their “virtue” – though, of course, not all moral-virtue frugalists do that.) I am occasionally extravagant, but not so much as in my youth. And I can find (even relish) elegance in simplicity.

    With that said, I found this, which I thought might add a small nuance to the discussion:

    frugal (adj.)

    "economical in use," 1590s, from French frugal, from Latin frugalis, from undeclined adjective frugi "useful, proper, worthy, honest; temperate, economical," originally dative of frux (plural fruges) "fruit, produce," figuratively "value, result, success," from PIE root *bhrug- "to enjoy," with derivatives referring to agricultural products. Sense evolved in Latin from "useful" to "profitable" to "economical." Related: Frugally.

    frugal | Search Online Etymology Dictionary
    The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words,…
    www.etymonline.com

    "We must try to make the end of the journey better than the beginning, as long as we are journeying; but when we come to the end, we must be happy and content." (Vatican Saying 48)

    Quote from Pacatus

    PIE root *bhrug- "to enjoy,"

    Always a fan of etymonline and PIE, too!

    Check out..

    *bhrug- | Meaning of root *bhrug- by etymonline
    *BHRUG- Meaning: "to enjoy," with derivatives referring to agricultural products.It forms all or part of: brook (v.) "to… See origin and meaning of *bhrug-.
    www.etymonline.com

    I *think* the bh- could also have evolved into an F or V sound, which is why there's frui... etc. in that entry.

    Don

    The Wiktionary entry for the Latin “frux” traces it to the PIE *bʰruHg-:

    Etymology[edit]

    From Proto-Italic *frūks, from Proto-Indo-European *bʰruHg- (“fruit”).


    frūx f (genitive frūgis); third declension


    produce, crop, fruit

    (in the plural) supplies

    (figuratively) fruit, result, success

    frux - Wiktionary

    ++++++++

    The Wiktionary entry for *bʰruHg also gives this definition: “to make use of; have enjoyment of”. Which agrees with Etymonline.

    Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/bʰruHg- - Wiktionary

    "We must try to make the end of the journey better than the beginning, as long as we are journeying; but when we come to the end, we must be happy and content." (Vatican Saying 48)

    The root of one of my favorite words--usufructuary.

    Quote from Edward Abbey


    Within this vast perimeter, in the middle ground and foreground of the picture, a rather personal demesne, are the 33,000 acres of Arches National Monument of which I am now sole inhabitant, usufructuary, observer and custodian.

    Quote from Don

    Even scooping dried pigeon droppings under bridges for "the best garden fertilizer." This is where it starts to sound like work!

    I'm wondering how many people read the book and say, 'you know, this other advice I could take or leave, but scavenging pigeon droppings is a great idea!'

    I hinted at this but let's make it explicit. The Art of Frugal Hedonism specifically mentions Epicurus, but I had't reached those sections yet. Let's jump ahead, shall we...

    "The ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus taught that three things are essential for a happy life: friendship, freedom, and time for contemplation."

    Caption to a photo: "Bar of Frugal Legends: Robinson Crusoe, Epicurus, Ernest Shackleton, and Miss Honey. Now, who's buying the first round?"

    In chapter 30: People who need people are the luckiest people in the world:

    "The truth about Epicurus: Epicurus was an ancient Greek philosopher who lived from 341 to 270 BC. For most people, his name carries with it the stink of rich cheeses, the sloshing of wine pitchers, and a general association with luxuriant gourmandising.

    "Records tell us that he was indeed parital to a spot of cheese, and was a great advocate for taking full pleasure in the sensual world, but in a manner far removed from the excessive indulgence suggested by his modern reputation. In fact, he firmly believed that simple meals provided as much joy as opulent ones, and saw extravagant desire as a surefire happiness-squisher: 'Do no spoil what you have by desiring what you have not.'

    "Companionship on the other hand, he regarded as vital: 'Of all the things which wisdom provides to make us entirely happy, much the greatest is the possession of friendship.' Epicurus thought people should never eat alone, and should live close to a circle of friends who would nourish each other's minds, help each other in daily life, and support each other in times of struggle. He candidly described friendship as something which starts from a point of need, or from the hope of mutual benefit, but then grows into sheer pleasure at having the other person in one's life. He also viewed friendship without some element of mutual need as being somewhat vacuous.

    "Not one for merely bandying lofty ideas around, Epicurus created The Garden, a sanctuary outside Athens where those interested in studying his philosophy (including women -- what would the neighbors say!) could live together by the Epicurean principles. Following his dreams obviously worked out well for him, as despite developing nasty kidney stones that made urination impossible in his old age, he apparently never complained about his suffering, and even wrote a letter to a friend on his last day on earth that described his mental state as 'blissful.'"

    Under an image of one of the busts is the caption:

    "Come on, look at those svelte cheekbones and tell us this wasn't a man who needed nothing more than some watered wine and barley cakes to have a good time."

    Thoughts:

    This all is no where near as stereotyped or ascetic as I've read in other places, including academic papers.

    I'm not sure where they got the three things, but I don't necessarily disagree. The "freedom" is implied by his setting his Garden outside the city walls of Athens and not teaching in public. Time for contemplation is supported by the "wise one enjoys contemplation more than others" and other similar textual references including "mediate on these day and night with a friend."

    I think they may misunderstand his position with the "extravagant desire as a surefire happiness-squisher." However, they did say *desires* here and not pleasures, and as Godfrey has pointed out, desires and pleasures are NOT the same thing. We also have Dr. Austin's book to thank for a much better explanation of "extravagant" pleasures.

    The picture caption with the "watered wine and barley cakes" if fine by me. The Greeks *did* water their wine, and Epicurus DID eat barley cakes. He also experimented with - oh, let's just call it intermittent fasting because that's what it was... but **Experimented** not lived that ascetically all the time. I'm still trying bake edible barley cakes myself, but I don't use MY experiments as good examples of what Epicurus ate.

    All in all, better than I hoped for. Not perfect by any means, but someone reading this would come away with a "better" perspective on Epicurus than most places!

    Quote from Don

    I think they may misunderstand his position with the "extravagant desire as a surefire happiness-squisher."

    They probably haven't read Living for Pleasure yet.... Although I quite like the use of the term "extravagant desires" in that book, this does point out the problem with that description. For now I would give these authors the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're using "extravagant" to describe unnecessary desires.

    And yes, it's nice to see that they understand the difference between desires and pleasures :)

    Speaking of desires, I found this blog post to have some good insights on the subject:

    Why wanting less doesn't always mean more joy - The Aesthetics of Joy by Ingrid Fetell Lee
    We're often told that wanting less is the key to happiness, but suppressing our desires can lead us to shrink our lives, play small, and accept less than we…
    aestheticsofjoy.com

    There seems to be something in the air these days: people are discovering the benefits of the Epicurean life, some perhaps through studying Epicurus, and some perhaps by reasoning it out on their own. Not all are presenting a complete worldview as did Epicurus, but it does seem to be a trend that's heading in a good direction.

    Godfrey : Changed my emoji on your article find from a "thanks" to a "heart"! I'm curious to explore that blog more.

    And I agree with your "something if the air these days." I'm torn on my reaction to all of this. Rucker, positive psychology, frugal hedonists, happiness research, and on and on all seem to be... Let's call it touching different pieces of the Elephant of Epicurean Philosophy and coming away with helpful lessons but missing the bigger coherent worldview.

    It seems to me that the blog's author's conclusion is Epicurean: learn to want better. The last 4 paragraphs are great! I think Buddhists would say "to want less, to control and tamp down our desires" is the right track. But I am convinced Epicurus didn't and wouldn't advocate "a state of over-consuming, goal-oriented pursuit, never able to enjoy anything." However, I think he'd agree with the author that desires are

    Quote from from blog

    "more nuanced. It’s not that wanting is bad, but that so many of us live our lives trying to satisfy the wants of others without really understanding what we want for ourselves. We pursue accolades to satisfy the wants of our parents, we acquire material things that to fix what marketers have told us is “wanting” in us.... Maybe we accept the gratification of a high-status job because we learned approval is more attainable than unconditional love.

    The whole idea of "wanting better" seems an apt metaphor for Epicurus's prudent perspective on living for pleasure.

    This one seems pretty good, too:

    How to cultivate an abundance mindset - The Aesthetics of Joy by Ingrid Fetell Lee
    Overcoming a scarcity mindset isn't easy, but these 6 tips can help you cultivate the an abundance mindset and see the world as generous and full of…
    aestheticsofjoy.com

    Especially in light of the "wealth of nature" thread we had recently:

    Quote from blog

    Wealth is having enough resources (money, health, connections, etc.) to live the life you want to live.

    I think I recently quipped that just because the Stoics say it doesn't make it necessarily wrong. And the same would go for the Buddhists. But:

    Quote from Don

    The last 4 paragraphs are great! I think Buddhists would say "to want less, to control and tamp down our desires" is the right track

    The right track to what?

    It begins to become more apparent how phrasing things in terms of "frugal hedonism" and "abundance" - rather than unmodified "pleasure" or the absence of reference to supernatural forces or life after death can end up leading to both very divergent goals and paths. It's very easy to place modifier words on pleasure that change the focus entirely. I could easily imagine "responsible pleasure" or "noble pleasure" would suit the Stoics.

    I think Diogenes of Oinoanda would have shouted at least as much at the Buddhists as he would at the Stoics, and very possibly more loudly.

    Sounds like the book has food for thought for living more self-sufficiently but contains much peril for those who are not clear about why they might want to do so.

    Quote from Cassius

    The right track to what?

    Just to be clear, I'm saying the Buddhists are wrong too. They would say tamping down desires is the right track.

    Quote from Cassius

    peril for those who are not clear about why they might want to do so.

    Agreed. Even though I may not agree with the technical translation, I still agree with the sentiment of "there's a limit to frugality..."

    Quote from Cassius

    The right track to what?

    Here in this thread I want to point out an example of the complexity (and difficulty) of thought and language.

    Quote from Don

    I think Buddhists would say "to want less, to control and tamp down our desires" is the right track.

    And Don has explained:

    Quote from Don

    Just to be clear, I'm saying the Buddhists are wrong too. They would say tamping down desires is the right track.

    But maybe Cassius was asking this:

    There is the question of the goal: "the right track to what?"

    Just like there is the idea within religion of Perennial philosophy, so to we need to watch out for some like this when comparing Epicureanism to other philosophies (such as the philosophy of Buddhism). I once read a very good explaination about why the belief in "perennial philosophy" is incorrect -- since the end goal of each religion is actually slightly different.

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply

    2. The Rhetoric of Explanation in Lucretius' De Rerum Natura 1

      • Kalosyni
      • November 21, 2024 at 1:39 PM
    3. Replies
      1
      Views
      235
      1

    4. Pacatus

      November 21, 2024 at 1:39 PM

    2. Evidence of Survivors of Pompeii and Herculaneum 1

      • kochiekoch
      • November 20, 2024 at 8:17 PM
    3. Replies
      1
      Views
      115
      1

    4. Don

      November 20, 2024 at 8:17 PM

    2. “Better to lose the money because of me than to lose me because of the money.” 3

      • TauPhi
      • November 19, 2024 at 9:30 PM
    3. Replies
      3
      Views
      240
      3

    4. Don

      November 19, 2024 at 9:30 PM

    2. An Anti-Epicurean Article - "The Meaning of Life Is Not Happiness" (For Future Reference) 12

      • Cassius
      • November 19, 2024 at 12:17 PM
    3. Replies
      12
      Views
      908
      12

    4. Pacatus

      November 19, 2024 at 12:17 PM

    2. Was De Rerum Natura intended as satire? A lecture by THM Gellar-Goad. 14

      • Julia
      • November 11, 2024 at 4:09 PM
    3. Replies
      14
      Views
      1.1k
      14

    4. Julia

      November 11, 2024 at 4:09 PM