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  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
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  4. To Live Unknown or To Engage With Society
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Paper On Epicurean Engagement With Society - Jeffrey Fish - "Not All Politicians Are Sysiphus"

  • Don
  • March 6, 2023 at 9:37 PM
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  • Don
    ΕΠΙΚΟΥΡΕΙΟΣ (Epicurist)
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    • March 6, 2023 at 9:37 PM
    • #1
    Not all politicians are Sisyphus: What Roman Epicureans were taught about politics,” in Epicurus and the Epicurean Tradition, ed. J. Fish and K. Sanders (Cambridge) 2011 72-104
    When it comes to political involvement, some of our most important sources on early Epicureanism frame the question in terms regularly employed by their Stoic…
    www.academia.edu
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    • March 6, 2023 at 9:56 PM
    • #2

    Well I am just starting this article but it is already clear that Don wins the coveted "Article Most Likely To Win Cassius' Approval" Award for the day!


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    • March 6, 2023 at 10:35 PM
    • #3

    This is a fact of history that is new to me -- I was not aware that the historical Torquatus of Cicero's time had died as a hero in battle only a few years before De Finibus was written. Not sure exactly the implication of that but it strikes me that Fish is correct that this would have been a factor in Cicero choosing to use him as the Epicurean spokesman - presumably indicating Torquatus' good standing in Cicero's mind.

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    • March 6, 2023 at 10:44 PM
    • #4

    Cropped and OCR'd version of this article is now here:

    File

    Jeffrey Fish - Not All Politicians Are Sisyphus - What Roman Epicureans Were Taught About Politics

    Well researched presentation of the argument that Epicurean philosophy can embrace, in proper circumstances, prudent participation in political affairs. I think this document is likely to become one of our key references on "engagement with society."
    Cassius
    March 6, 2023 at 10:43 PM
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    • March 6, 2023 at 10:54 PM
    • #5

    There is a lot of discussion in this article about Philodemus' "On The Good King" but I do not recall that we have discussed it here much in the past.

    We need to find the best available translations / reconstructions of what is left and start a thread on that under Ethics:

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    • March 6, 2023 at 11:58 PM
    • #6

    "Retaining his imperium, or power to command, Torquatus was in Africa in 47.[17] There the surviving boni raised an army which included 40,000 men (about 8 legions), a powerful cavalry force led by Caesar's former right-hand man, the talented Titus Labienus, forces of allied local kings and 60 war elephants. The two armies engaged in small skirmishes to gauge the strength of the opposing force, during which two legions switched to Caesar's side. Meanwhile, Caesar expected reinforcements from Sicily. In the beginning of February 46, Caesar arrived in Thapsus and besieged the city. The boni, led by Metellus Scipio, could not risk the loss of this position and were forced to accept battle. Scipio commanded "without skill or success",[18] and Caesar won a crushing victory which ended the war. Torquatus fled the field along with Scipio, attempting to escape to Hispania, but was trapped at Hippo Regius by the fleet of Publius Sittius. Scipio committed suicide on board a ship and Torquatus either committed suicide with him or was captured and executed.[19]"

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    • March 7, 2023 at 1:28 AM
    • #7

    So Torquatus was fighting with the remains of Pompey's Senatorial forces, against Caesar?

    No doubt that would have endeared him to Cicero, if true.

  • Don
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    • March 7, 2023 at 4:51 AM
    • #8
    Philodemi Peri tou kath' homeron agathou basileos libellus; editit [.] Alexander Olivieri : Philodemus, ca. 110-ca. 40 B.C : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
    26
    archive.org

    "On the Good King According to Homer" in Greek and Latin.

    Not the most helpful for us, but posting here to provide an idea of the condition of the papyrus. You can take a look at the Greek text and see the are fragments at the beginning but a good amount of in relatively good shape.

    Also:

    23.1.Fish | Society for Classical Studies

    Jeffrey Fish
    www.baylor.edu
    The Closing Columns of Philodemus’ ON THE GOOD KING ACCORDING TO HOMER, PHERC. 1507 COLS. 95-98 (= COLS. 40-43 DORANDI)
    This article presents a reedition of the nal columns of Philodemus’ On the Good King According to Homer (columns 95-98 = cols. 40-43 Dorandi). In the nal…
    www.academia.edu
    Odysseus and the Epicureans
    Odysseus was one of the classic role models for the Stoics. And he was my favorite mythological hero when I was a kid. Both excellent reasons for this…
    howtobeastoic.wordpress.com
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    • March 7, 2023 at 7:21 AM
    • #9

    Thank you Don! This is such a recurring question that I am going to redo the FAQ on "Engagement with Society" based on the material in this article, and also add Dr. Fish to the list of people that would make potential good interviewees on the podcast.

  • Cassius March 22, 2023 at 8:53 AM

    Changed the title of the thread from “Paper on Epicurean politics in ancient Rome” to “Paper On Epicurean Engagement With Society - Jeffrey Fish - "Not All Politicians Are Sysiphus"”.
  • Cassius March 22, 2023 at 8:55 AM

    Moved the thread from forum Articles to forum Engagement With The Non-Epicurean World / Live Unknown?.

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