Best Translation of PDO6 to Feature at EpicureanFriends.com

The following post is one of a series so that we can get our collection of the main list of Principal Doctrines under the "Texts" section in better shape. Although this thread will include a "poll" in the next post, what we are really looking for is the "best" combination of faithfulness to the original combined with clarity in modern English. I will get with a collection of the Level 3 participants here to work on editing the final list, but the full discussion should be open to everyone to consider, so that's what we will do here. The results of the poll won't control what is featured on the text page but will definitely influence in and probably at least result in a footnote to this thread.

The English translation of PD06 currently featured here in our Texts section is not that of our normal Cyril Bailey from his Extant Remains:, but this time from Eugene O'Connor:

PD06. Whatever you can provide yourself with to secure protection from men is a natural good. [2]

We have access (thanks to Nate's full collection) to many different variations including:

**EΝEΚA TΟΥ ΘAΡΡEΙΝ ****EΞ AΝΘΡΩΠΩΝ ****ΗΝ ΚATA ΦΥΣΙΝ**

**[AΡΧΗΣ ****ΚAΙ ΒAΣΙΛEΙAΣ]***** AΓAΘΟΝ ****EΞ ΩΝ AΝ ΠΟTE TΟΥTΟ**

**ΟΙΟΣ T' ῌ ΠAΡAΣΚEΥAΖEΣΘAΙ. **

***Arrighetti**

“For the sake of feeling confidence and security with regard to men, anything in nature is good, if it provides the means to achieve this.” Yonge (1853)

“As far as concerns protection from other men, any means of procuring this was a natural good.” Hicks (1910)

“In order to obtain security from other men any means whatsoever of procuring this was a natural good.” Hicks (1925)

“To secure protection from men anything is a natural good, by which you may be able to attain this end.” Bailey (1926)

“As for the assurance of safety from the attacks of men, by virtue of the nature of political dominion and kingly power this is a good thing, no matter by whose aid one is able to procure it." DeWitt, Epicurus and His Philosophy 79 (1954)

“Political rule and kingly power being what they are, it is a good thing to feel secure in human relations no matter through whose agency one is able to attain this." DeWitt, St. Paul and Epicurus 187 (1954)

“Any device whatever by which one frees himself from the fear of others is a natural good.” Geer (1964)

“Whatever you can provide yourself with to secure protection from men is a natural good.” O'Connor (1993)

“The natural good of public office and kingship is for the sake of getting confidence from [other] men, [at least] from those from whom one is able to provide this.” Inwood & Gerson (1994)

“That natural benefit of kingship and high office is (and only is) the degree to which they provide security from other men.” Anderson (2004)

“This [human ability to lead a good life] originally became possible by nature and for the sake of imparting courage in human beings [who were then living in a pre-social condition.] And this is the natural origin and principle on which all authority—be it even kingship—is based. And it is from the same [natural propensities] that a human being is able also to arrange a good and pleasant life.” Makridis (2005)

“It is a natural benefit of leadership and kingship to take courage from other men (or at least from the sort of men who can give one courage).” Saint-Andre (2008)

“Any means by which it is possible to procure freedom from fearing other men is a natural good.” Strodach (2012)

“In order that men might not fear one another, there was a natural benefit to be had from government and kingship, provided that they are able to bring about this result.” Mensch (2018)

“There was some natural good in leadership and kingship for the purpose of establishing mutual confidence among people, any time someone is thereby able to do so.” White (2021)

New Greek Version: “In order to obtain security from other people, there was (always) the natural good of sovereignty and kingship, through which (someone) once could have accomplished this.”

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Which of the above, or which with changes you would suggest, should be featured here in the main list? In the interest of space the poll will not include every option, so please add a comment in the thread if you would suggest a variation not listed.

Which Translation of PD06 Should be Featured At EpicureanFriends.com?

Don your breakdown by word reminds me of the "nodictionaries.com" format for Latin. I don't suppose you know of an equivalent for Greek?

Quote from Don

I don't see anything about kingship or politics in the Greek. Am I missing something

I seem to remember that we have been down this road before and Elli had some commentary but we will have to look back.....

Yep that's the one, and we're still batting it back and forth! Thanks Don!

It's always interesting and a little scary to read what was written three years ago by the same people who may have very different thoughts now!

As a general comment - that kind of editorial thinking can easily lead to problems. Is he really so sure what was in Epicurus' mind when the text says something else? Sounds like this is one of those situations where Dewitt prefers "less emended texts."

Add that this editorial thinking comes from Bailey and I am even more suspicious of it.

Quote from Nate

It's text added by Arrighetti denoted with the <brackets>. I believe I have that version listed in my KD compilation.

And so Nate in this situation the text really is there, and is just read OUT by most, but does exist in the manuscript?

I have never had much fix on Usener because I have never been able to read any commentary by him that may exist, but I know I don't have a good feel about Bailey's discretion. But in this case we can't pin this on Bailey, correct? I wish we had more access to Usener's general thoughts on Epicurus to see if (or how) he made similar "this can't be right" comments.

Thank you again Don for all you do.