Philodemus On the Senses

'Download' button gives you access to a thesis on PHerc. 19/698. Translation starts on page 24.

I hope that's what you're looking for.

Great use of the forum to coordinate work. Thank you TauPhi for finding that reference!

“The trouble may be cleared up by considering the terminology used by these two philosophers.”

Yes – as when the Stoics distinguish between pathe and eupathe, while the Epicureans treat pathe as such: signaling either pleasure or pain/disturbance (physical or mental).

The Epicurean division of aesthesis (sensus), pathe (adfectio) and prolepsis (intuitio) seems just, all round, more clear.

“Philodemus seems to make explicit the connection between affections and self-consciousness, and he identifies affections as ‘sense perceptions of themselves’ (ἑαυτῶν ἐπαισθήσεις, col. XII). This is underscored in col. XV, where Philodemus says that we have a perception of pleasure that is discrete from our perception of the object that produces it. In the same column, Philodemus makes another important claim: that “we also have a perception of (ἐπαισθάνεσθαι) the fact of seeing.”

And (although I could be wrong) I don’t see that “being aware of x” and “being aware that I am aware” and “being aware that I am also aware of the affect that being aware has upon me” necessarily leads to an infinite regression. Except in the most radically abstract application of logic.

This IS a great find! Thanks, TauPhi !!

FYI: For the "original" https://papyri.info/dclp/62381

PS: That link of mine seems superfluous That paper does an amazing job of re-assembling the fragmentary puzzle along with a great transcription and translation. This find gets better and better.

Note: When you see "affections" in the translations, that's πάθη pathe. ... PPS: Hmmm... I'm going to have to take a closer look. The translator might have been playing fast and loose

I also want to add a caveat that, while this papyrus is of very keen interest to me (and us), we shouldn't "defer" to a treatise from 1st c. BCE over modern scientific neuroscience research when it comes to understanding feelings, perceptions, consciousness, and so on.

I am very much looking to dig into PHerc. 698 with this new find. TauPhi gets a gold star for this discovery!!

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It is interesting that this is out of Brigham Young University and most of the good recent translations of Philodemus have been from the Society of Biblical Literature.

Hmm. I wonder if the link is papyrology; the scholars working on the Dead Sea Scrolls and those working on Herculaneum and other fragmentary texts sharing tools, technology, and insights.