Discussion on Philodemus Fragments

Bryan I noticed you posted some fragments on your profile Timeline, and so I wanted to repost them here, and also bring up the questions: What are good sources of Philodemus fragments - translators, books, websites? Recommendations or thoughts on determining accuracy of sources?

Here are the two that Bryan quoted:

(Philodemus - On the Stable Conduct of the Gods - P.Herc. 157 col. 7) "complete happiness is achieved when one keeps their burdens under control and can manage their life in a beneficial way for themselves, and thus attains everything they wish for -- because they harbor no desires or intentions that conflict with nature."

(P.Herc. 152 fr. 9) "External needs contribute to the community's role in fostering interactions, as it is impossible to maintain a sense of community without some level of engagement. This is particularly relevant for us, those who rely on the essential aspects of friendship, with the implication that our lives heavily depend on this communal support."

Here is a list of Philodemus works, on Wikipedia:

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This is a list of the major works of Philodemus found so far at Herculaneum.

Historical works

• Index Stoicorum (PHerc. 1018)
• Index Academicorum (PHerc. 164, 1021)
• On the Stoics (PHerc. 155, 339)
• On Epicurus (PHerc. 1232, 1289)
• Works on the Records of Epicurus and some others (PHerc. 1418, 310)
• To Friends of the School (PHerc. 1005)

Scientific works

• On Phenomena and Inferences (PHerc. 1065)

Theological writings

• On Piety (PHerc. 1428)
• On the Gods (PHerc. 26)
• On the Way of Life of the Gods (PHerc. 152, 157)

Ethics edit 

• On Vices and Virtues, book 7 (On Flattery) (PHerc. 222, 223, 1082, 1089, 1457, 1675)
• On Vices and Virtues, book 9 (On Household Management) (PHerc. 1424)
• On Vices and Virtues, book 10 (On Arrogance) (PHerc. 1008)
• Comparetti Ethics (named after its first editor; PHerc. 1251)
• On Death (PHerc. 1050)
• On Frank Criticism (PHerc. 1471)
• On Anger (PHerc. 182)

On rhetoric, music, and poetry

• On Rhetoric (on many papyri)
• On Music (PHerc. 1497)
• On Poems (on many papyri)
• On the Good King according to Homer (PHerc. 1507)

Unpublished Fragments

• PHerc. Paris. 4

Editions

• Fleischer, Kilian Josef (2023). Philodem, Geschichte der Akademie: Einführung, Ausgabe, Kommentar. Leiden; Boston: Brill. ISBN 9789004546530.

English translations

• Philodemus: On Anger. (2020), David Armstrong & Michael McOsker. SBL. ISBN 1628372699
• Philodemus: On Death. (2009), W. Benjamin Henry. SBL. ISBN 1-58983-446-1
• Philodemus: On Frank Criticism. (1998), David Konstan, Diskin Clay, Clarence, E. Glad. SBL. ISBN 1-58983-292-2
• Philodemus: On Methods of Inference. 2nd edition. (1978). Phillip Howard De Lacy, Estelle Allen De Lacy. Bibliopolis.
• Philodemus, On Piety, Part 1. (1996). Critical Text with Commentary by Dirk Obbink. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-815008-3
• Philodemus, On Poems, Book 1. (2001). Edited with Introduction, Translation, and Commentary by Richard Janko. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-815041-5
• Philodemus, On Poems, Book 2, with the fragments of Heracleodorus and Pausimachus. (2020). Edited with Introduction, Translation, and Commentary by Richard Janko. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780198835080
• Philodemus, On Poems, Books 3-4, with the Fragments of Aristotle, On Poets. (2010). Edited with Introduction, Translation, and Commentary by Richard Janko. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-957207-0
• Philodemus, On Property Management. (2013), Voula Tsouna. SBL. ISBN 1-58983-667-7
• Philodemus, On Rhetoric Books 1 and 2: Translation and Exegetical Essays. (2005). Clive Chandler (editor). Routledge. ISBN 0-415-97611-1
• David Sider, (1997), The Epigrams of Philodemos. Introduction, Text, and Commentary. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-509982-6

Source link:

Philodemus - Wikipedia

I'm reading the introduction of Voula Tsouna's "The Ethics of Philodemus" (published in 2007)and found this regarding their fragmentary nature:

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As mentioned, I have kept down the technical aspects of Philodemus’ texts and have treated them as philosophical writings to the extent that this is possible. However, there are limitations to that effort which are set by the peculiar nature of the evidence and, especially, by the fact that many passages are fragmentary, and their restorations partly conjectural. I have tried to avoid the phenomenon that David Sedley was the first to characterize as ‘bracket blindness’: i.e., the tendency to overlook the brackets surrounding editorial restorations of a word or passage and thus develop interpretations based on slim or even non-existent evidence. But sometimes I have taken the liberty to interpret heavily supplemented passages when the interpretation that I propose finds support in the context.

I have used square brackets in my translations to indicate those places in which a given passage has been heavily restored, and hence its translation and interpretation are largely conjectural. On the other hand, I have not marked with square brackets supplementations where I have a high degree of confidence in their correctness. Overall, I have indicated that not everything in Philodemus is at the same level of certainty, and, moreover, I have demarcated places in which the evidence is particularly precarious. But I have not undertaken to show systematically here the special difficulties and pleasures of working with the texts of the Herculaneum papyri, although I hope that I have conveyed to my readers some sense of that too.

And this:

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When we deal with texts belonging to the Herculaneum papyri collection, we usually move from passages which are better preserved to those that are least well preserved. However, it has seemed best for systematic reasons to begin several chapters at or near the beginning of the extant texts that they discuss, although beginnings are typically more damaged than the columns that follow. When I proceed in this manner, I try to remain aware of the highly conjectural parts and, if possible, I interpret them in the light of better-known passages. Finally, my discussion of extremely fragmentary works—for instance, On Flattery—is informed by my understanding of texts which are in better shape and preferably belong to the same ensemble: for example, several continuous columns of On Arrogance. Even so, I should stress once more the tentative character of such interpretations.

This brings up a question of are these unreliable sources still out in publication (which ones are they) and what is a trusted source.

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Nonetheless, numerous editions of Philodemus’ works, especially early ones, are unreliable. Many were not based on a reading of the papyri themselves, but rather on the disegni, which are frequently wrong, and this led editors to be bolder about changing the texts presented in these copies, filling in gaps, and interpreting the results than they might have been had they read the papyri instead. In many such cases, better reading of the papyrus has shown that the text ran very differently indeed from the conjectures that have commonly served as the basis of reconstructions of the views of Philodemus and others. One common problem has been the mistaking of what turns out to be a citation of an opponent for something Philodemus himself maintains (and vice versa).

Philodemus (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Quote from Don

And this is exactly why those digitized papyri online are SO valuable. We all have access unimagined by earlier authors/scholars right at our fingertips.

In post 5 above Don you linked to a site but it doesn't have translations.

Then I also wonder if books written in later part of 20th century used old translations or their own translations.

Thank you Don, and this is especially relevant because we have five more Wednesday nights until we will be finishing up with the Vatican Sayings....and then we will be moving on to study fragments, which I am very much looking forward to because I haven't spent much time on them yet. Cassius is putting together a study list, and it will include various significant fragments from Usener's collection...and it will include some Philodemus fragments.

It appears that we will begin our new Wednesday night study focus on March 27th (if I have calculated correctly). More info will be coming out as that approaches.

And also thank you Bryan too!