Do you even accept the terms of things needing "meaning"?
Right, I would first question the terms of the debate. "Meaning" to whom? Jordan Peterson and others of either an explicitly religious or a "humanist" bent look for standards of moral worthiness in gods or idealism. Epicurus taught that nature gives us only pleasure and pain by which to determine what to choose and what to avoid. Therefore we don't look to supernatural gods or rationalistic ideals; instead we each individually have to look to the guidance that we feel inside as to physical and mental pain and pleasure for the ultimate answers to all questions of how to live.
I don't doubt that there is a "meaning crisis," but it is a crisis of the creation of the people you listed and their predecessor schools. They won't get past it until they abandon their search for answers in divine revelation and rationalistic idealism. The people you listed are highly unlikely to make that change, so they will just keep at their task of wringing their hands over their self-created angst.
And since I think it's an important part of this discussion I will restate it: the "secular humanists" are just as guilty of this problem as are those preaching supernatural religion. The secular humanists talk like they offer an alternative to revealed religion, but then they turn right around and adopt the central core of the morality of the people they claim to oppose. I think Epicurus would say that all attempts to replace the guidance of nature (through pleasure and pain) with some other standard is doomed to ultimately being unsatisfying.
I started to type "doomed to failure" in that last sentence, but I suppose since the people I am criticizing have been the viewpoint of a large majority of people for 2000+ years, it's hard to say that they have "failed" in their goal. The problem is that their goal is manipulation and suppression of people holding viewpoints not to their liking, and in that respect unfortunately they have largely been successful.
If someone wants a meaning for one's life, they are free to create it.
I thought about meaning of life during adolescence and the subsequent years because I read and heard from others about it but never felt that need for a meaning of life, so for me personally, there is no such crisis. However, as Nietzsche anticipated, the meaning crisis might be relevant for many people.
Figures on social media platforms, such as john vervaeke
I had to look him up because I don't know anything about him. I found this summary of some of his ideas.
The idea that the loss of religion is causing a "meaning crisis"...my first reaction is this: "correlation does not equal causation".
Perhaps (and this just an idea) the "meaning crisis" is that people neither feel a sense of belonging with people within their immediate surroundings AND the people all around them have such vastly differing worldviews (and political views)...which makes the development of a sense of belonging very difficult. So I am thinking it is not so much what exactly people believe but that everyone is believing differently from one another. (And even family members can hold vastly differing views). Add in to that, that there are so many varying hobbies and interests in life, so that finding someone to talk to with who has the same interests (and who has time to talk) can be difficult.
Feeling a sense of isolation can create a crisis for human beings, as we have evolved within family and community.
How would you as an Epicurean answer this meaning crisis? Do you even accept the terms of things needing "meaning"? I have my own thoughts which I'll add later.
I think I started a thread on meaning not too long ago (will need to see if I can dig it up). And there are other threads and places that meaning is discussed.
"Things needing meaning"?
-- the meaning of life? (I'd say this question comes from "religious salesmen")
-- feeling like what you do is meaningful? (worthwhile, pleasurable, gives good results in the long-term, brings happiness)
-- making meaning for yourself? (having a method for choosing the things that you do)
-- that your life matters? (feeling a sense of connection with others, and that they care about you and you care about them)
Here is the thread that I created on meaning:
All these "meaning crisis" people strike me as "gummy bear prophets". They try to find people who never had gummy bears in their lives, convince these poor folks that their lives suck and it's absolutely crucial to eat gummy bears to make their lives better. When the bait is taken, "gummy bear prophets" will conveniently reveal themselves as "gummy bear suppliers" and will stuff their victims with gummy bears until obesity takes its toll.
When ungrateful victims prove themselves to be incompetent enough to find a way to consume more gummy bears from six feet under, "gummy bear prophets" will announce to the world that another crisis is due but luckily for only $21.99 they are willing to share a solution. You'll get 50% discount if you share, like and subscribe and further 25% if you use their promo code: gummybearsrulez within the next two hours.
All these "meaning crisis" people strike me as "gummy bear prophets". They try to find people who never had gummy bears in their lives, convince these poor folks that their lives suck and it's absolutely crucial to eat gummy bears to make their lives better. When the bait is taken, "gummy bear prophets" will conveniently reveal themselves as "gummy bear suppliers" and will stuff their victims with gummy bears until obesity takes its toll.
When ungrateful victims prove themselves to be incompetent enough to find a way to consume more gummy bears from six feet under, "gummy bear prophets" will announce to the world that another crisis is due but luckily for only $21.99 they are willing to share a solution. You'll get 50% discount if you share, like and subscribe and further 25% if you use their promo code: gummybearsrulez within the next two hours.
Lmao yeah they all selling something alright. It's all a money racket just like religion.
I am a bit late to the discussion, but I have to say I agree with Cassius: if you try to deviate from the indications given to us by nature(pleasure and pain), you may end up in endless speculations that bring nothing but more questions and no help to anyone.
I would also like to share something I heard from a philosophy professor once. He said that if you had to walk on a path that was surrounded by beautiful flowers, had soft ground, smelled good, and was filled with all other sorts of pleasure, you would not ask "Why am I walking on this path?", as just the pleasure of walking on it would justify your walk. Now, if the path was surrounded by rotting, dead animals and was covered by nails and broken glass, then you'd ask "Why am I walking on this path?", as you'd need to have a justification for the pain.
A pleasurable life doesn't need "meaning", as pleasure justifies itself.
Well said!
Vatican Saying 48:
"While you are on the road, try to make the later part better than the earlier part; and be equally happy when you reach the end."
Seems like an Epicurean would evaluate and then take action to make their life better (perhaps based on natural and necessary for happiness).
I appreciate the sentiments expressed by Kalosyni to keep a focus on nature. While I am still learning about #Epicurus teachings, I find his focus on Nature as the ruler on what is “real”. My understanding of Nature is that everything is in motion and creating (growing/aging still involves creation of new cells). So, I try to find “meaning” in my life by prioritizing on finding new solutions to issues that arise in different facets of our lives (home, work, community, personal self, etc.).
