1. New
    1. Member Announcements
  2. Home
    1. Get Started - Activities
    2. Posting Policies
    3. Community Standards
    4. Terms of Use
    5. Moderator Team
    6. Site Map
    7. Quizzes
    8. Articles
      1. Featured Articles
      2. Blog Posts at EpicureanFriends
  3. Wiki
    1. Wiki Home
    2. FAQ
    3. Classical Epicureanism
    4. Physics
    5. Canonics
    6. Ethics
    7. Search Assistance
    8. Not NeoEpicurean
    9. Foundations
    10. Navigation Outlines
    11. Key Pages
  4. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  5. Podcast
    1. Lucretius Today Podcast
    2. Episode Guide
    3. Lucretius Today At Youtube
    4. EpicureanFriends Youtube Page
  6. Texts
    1. Overview
    2. Diogenes Laertius
    3. Principal Doctrines
    4. Vatican Sayings
    5. Lucretius
    6. Herodotus
    7. Pythocles
    8. Menoeceus
    9. Fragments - Usener Collection
    10. Torquatus On Ethics
    11. Velleius On Gods
    12. Greek/Latin Help
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured images
    2. Albums
    3. Latest Images
    4. Latest Comments
  8. Calendar
    1. Upcoming Events List
    2. Zoom Meetings
    3. This Month
    4. First Monday Zoom Meetings
    5. Wednesday Zoom Meeting
    6. Twentieth Zoom Meetings
    7. Zoom Meetings
  9. Other
    1. Featured Content
    2. Blog Posts
    3. Files
    4. Logbook
    5. EF ToDo List
    6. Link-Database
  • Login
  • Register
  • Search
This Thread

Welcome To EpicureanFriends.com!

"Remember that you are mortal, and you have a limited time to live, and in devoting yourself to discussion of the nature of time and eternity you have seen things that have been, are now, and are to come."

Sign In Now
or
Register a new account
  1. New
  2. Home
  3. Wiki
  4. Forum
  5. Podcast
  6. Texts
  7. Gallery
  8. Calendar
  9. Other
  1. Forum
    1. New Activity
    2. New Threads
    3. Welcome
    4. General Discussion
    5. Featured
    6. Activism
    7. Shortcuts
    8. Dashboard
    9. Full Forum List
    10. Level 3+
    11. Most Discussed
  1. EpicureanFriends - Home of Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Forum
  3. Epicureans Of The Past
  4. Gaius Julius Caesar
  • Sidebar
  • Sidebar

Caesar The Epicurean? A Matter of Life and Death - Volk 2022

  • Cassius
  • January 16, 2025 at 9:36 AM
  • Go to last post
Regularly Checking In On A Small Screen Device? Bookmark THIS page!
  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,612
    Posts
    13,907
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • January 16, 2025 at 9:36 AM
    • #1

    Here is another article discussing Julius Caesar as potentially Epicurean. I don't yet have a fix on how to compare it to the 1977 article by Frank Bourne, but we have links to both in our "Julius Caesar" subsection of the forum.

    Caesar the Epicurean? A Matter of Life and Death
    In Epicurus in Rome: Philosophical Perspectives in the Ciceronian Age, ed. by S. Yona and G. Davis. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2022, pp. 72-86.
    www.academia.edu

    Couple of sections that catch my attention:

    Quote

    That Caesar was informed about Epicureanism is without doubt. Even if he had undergone no specifically philosophical training himself, a basic knowledge concerning the major philosophical schools was, by the first century BC, part and parcel of the Roman aristocracy’s cultural competence, and Caesar can hardly have failed to pick up the principles of Rome’s most fashionable philosophical creed. Furthermore, as has often been pointed out, many of Caesar’s friends and followers were Epicureans. These include not only his father-in-law Piso, but also his trusted lieutenant C. Vibius Pansa Caetronianus and the jurist C. Trebatius Testa. In the case of such other Caesarians as L. Cornelius Balbus, A. Hirtius and C. Matius, we cannot be sure about their philosophical allegiance, but Epicurean leanings have often been suggested. While older views that Epicureanism provided a political ideology for the Caesarian party have long been debunked, and it is well established that Epicureans stood on both sides of the Civil War, the concentration of putative Epicureans in Caesar’s circle is still worth noting.

    What is especially interesting is the evidence for Epicurean activity in the Caesarian camp during the campaigns in Gaul, Germany and Britain. Trebatius, who had joined Caesar’s staff on the recommendation of Cicero, converted to Epicureanism in 53 BC, apparently under the influence of Pansa. His mentor back in Rome reacted in mock horror: “My friend Pansa tells me you have become an Epicurean. That’s a great camp you got there!” (indicavit mihi Pansa meus Epicureum te esse factum. o castra praeclara!, Fam. ..). Just a year earlier, the leisure hours of the campaigning Caesarian officers may have been taken up with studying Lucretius’ brand-new poem. As Christopher Krebs has shown, following F. R. Dale, Caesar himself must have read On the Nature of Things in 54, to judge from striking verbal echoes in Books 5, 6, and 7 of his Gallic War. It is possible that Caesar, and perhaps other philosophically interested members of his staff, were introduced to Lucretius by Quintus Cicero, who knew the poem by February 54 (Cic. QFr. ..) and joined Caesar’s campaign shortly thereafter. Dale (, ) fondly imagines that Caesar “read Lucretius with Quintus in Britain, on a summer evening in his tent.”


    Would be particularly interesting to follow up on the reference to verbal parallels between Lucretius and Caesar's "Gallic War"!

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,612
    Posts
    13,907
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • January 16, 2025 at 9:46 AM
    • #2

    I see Trebatius Testa, apparently a well-known figure, is listed in Wikipedia, but Epicurean leanings are not mentioned --

    Trebatius Testa - Wikipedia

  • Online
    Cassius
    05 - Administrator
    Points
    101,612
    Posts
    13,907
    Quizzes
    9
    Quiz rate
    100.0 %
    • January 16, 2025 at 9:54 AM
    • #3

    Also:

    Quote

    Caesar also offers a striking argument against the death penalty itself (Sall. BC 51.20):

    de poena possum equidem dicere, id quod res habet, in luctu atque miseriis mortem aerumnarum requiem, non cruciatum esse; eam cuncta mortalium mala dissolvere; ultra neque curae neque gaudio locum esse.

    About the punishment I can speak according to the facts: in sorrow and misery death is a relief from grief, not a torture. It dissolves all human ills, and beyond it, there is place for neither care nor joy.

    While Sallust is not quoting Caesar verbatim, he presumably availed himself of the senatorial archives in reconstructing the speeches, and the historicity of the remarks on death is confirmed not only by the fact that Sallust’s Cato, in responding to Caesar, refers back to them, but crucially also by Cicero’s own summary of the discussion in the fourth speech Against Catiline.

    As for Cato, he begins his attack on Caesar’s proposal as follows (Sall. BC 52.13):

    bene et conposite C. Caesar paulo ante in hoc ordine de vita et morte disseruit, credo falsa existumans ea quae de inferis memorantur, divorso itinere malos a bonis loca taetra, inculta, foeda atque formidulosa habere.

    C. Caesar a little while ago gave this order a well-phrased and well-structured lecture on life and death, apparently deeming false what is said about the underworld, namely, that divorced from the good, the wicked inhabit horrid, desolate, foul and fearful places.

    Display More

Unread Threads

    1. Title
    2. Replies
    3. Last Reply
    1. ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus 25

      • Like 1
      • michelepinto
      • March 18, 2021 at 11:59 AM
      • General Discussion
      • michelepinto
      • May 9, 2025 at 12:09 PM
    2. Replies
      25
      Views
      6.8k
      25
    3. Julia

      May 9, 2025 at 12:09 PM
    1. Is All Desire Painful? How Would Epicurus Answer? 16

      • Like 1
      • Cassius
      • May 7, 2025 at 10:02 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Cassius
      • May 9, 2025 at 7:22 AM
    2. Replies
      16
      Views
      389
      16
    3. Don

      May 9, 2025 at 7:22 AM
    1. Pompeii Then and Now 7

      • Like 2
      • kochiekoch
      • January 22, 2025 at 1:19 PM
      • General Discussion
      • kochiekoch
      • May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
    2. Replies
      7
      Views
      1k
      7
    3. kochiekoch

      May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
    1. Names of Bits of Reality 4

      • Thanks 2
      • Eikadistes
      • May 8, 2025 at 12:12 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Eikadistes
      • May 8, 2025 at 1:31 PM
    2. Replies
      4
      Views
      161
      4
    3. Eikadistes

      May 8, 2025 at 1:31 PM
    1. Why pursue unnecessary desires? 74

      • Like 1
      • Rolf
      • May 2, 2025 at 12:41 PM
      • General Discussion
      • Rolf
      • May 8, 2025 at 12:17 AM
    2. Replies
      74
      Views
      2k
      74
    3. Joshua

      May 8, 2025 at 12:17 AM

Latest Posts

  • ⟐ as the symbol of the philosophy of Epicurus

    Julia May 9, 2025 at 12:09 PM
  • Is All Desire Painful? How Would Epicurus Answer?

    Don May 9, 2025 at 7:22 AM
  • Pompeii Then and Now

    kochiekoch May 8, 2025 at 3:50 PM
  • Names of Bits of Reality

    Eikadistes May 8, 2025 at 1:31 PM
  • Episode 280 - Wrapping Up Cicero's Arguments On Death

    Cassius May 8, 2025 at 11:54 AM
  • Episode 279 - On "Dying Before One's Time"

    Cassius May 8, 2025 at 11:15 AM
  • Why pursue unnecessary desires?

    Joshua May 8, 2025 at 12:17 AM
  • Author and Title of a Herculaneum Scroll Read

    kochiekoch May 7, 2025 at 9:45 PM
  • Welcome DaveT

    DaveT May 6, 2025 at 1:51 PM
  • First Picture of "Free Range Atoms"

    Cassius May 6, 2025 at 7:15 AM

EpicureanFriends - Classical Epicurean Philosophy

  1. Home
    1. About Us
    2. Classical Epicurean Philosophy
  2. Wiki
    1. Getting Started
  3. Frequently Asked Questions
    1. Site Map
  4. Forum
    1. Latest Threads
    2. Featured Threads
    3. Unread Posts
  5. Texts
    1. Core Texts
    2. Biography of Epicurus
    3. Lucretius
  6. Articles
    1. Latest Articles
  7. Gallery
    1. Featured Images
  8. Calendar
    1. This Month At EpicureanFriends
Powered by WoltLab Suite™ 6.0.22
Style: Inspire by cls-design
Stylename
Inspire
Manufacturer
cls-design
Licence
Commercial styles
Help
Supportforum
Visit cls-design
  • Everywhere
  • This Thread
  • This Forum
  • Forum
  • Articles
  • Blog Articles
  • Files
  • Gallery
  • Events
  • Pages
  • Wiki
  • Help
  • FAQ
  • More Options
foo
Save Quote