Epicurean Music- Oldies

Here are songs along with comments from a FB thread. Someone advocating Costa Rican "Pure Life" came by and that led to this:

You know what this whole affair reminds me of:

Maybe I should try to be more accurate:

For those of us old enough to remember when Kokomo came out - we were much younger weren't we? At least for me, it's hard to associate any bad memories or unpleasant feelings with that song. Probably I need to add this song to my list of "Techniques for Feeling Better" the next time [a self-professed stoic] asks for a list!

• [the stoic]: Cassius Amicus I love the Beach Boys! 

• Cassius Amicus  So you like the beach boys? Another confession!!! Stop trying to convince us you are a Stoic, Julia ;

• Cassius Amicus Waiting for an explanation from Julia on how Epictetus would like the Beach Boys........ 

• Cassius Amicus Shifting back into semi-serious mode, there are, in response to Stoic dialectical argument, many good Epicurean logical arguments. And then there is the best "argument" of all - FEELING!

• [Poster]: Semi-serious, ha! Delete or hide this
• Cassius Amicus RIGHT! No one should be confused - I am FULLY serious --- FEELING trumps dialectical logic and always will- I am convinced that is perhaps Epicurus' MOST important insight!

Cassius Amicus One more in case Julia is struggling to hold on to her Stoicism!

• I don't know their names but for some reason the one with the beard makes me think of Eikadistes ! Nathan Bartman ;-

Cassius Amicus OK in order to take the pressure off Julia, I'll add that listening to these songs presents a challenge to those who advocate the strict ascetic interpretation that one should limit oneself to bread and water on the grounds that those are all that are "natural and necessary." Epicurus could not have meant that strict literalism. He had to know that music isn't particularly "necessary" just for pure bodily survival, but that's why it seems he equated pleasure with health -- pleasures such as this reinforce us and build us up and are in fact "necessary" and that's why the same man who came up with that means of analysis how much trouble something will cause also said:

“I know not how to conceive the good, apart from the pleasures of taste, of sex, of sound, and the pleasures of beautiful form.”

And

vS 37. When confronted by evil nature is weak, but not when faced with good; for pleasures make it secure but pains ruin it.

Quote from Oscar

beach life is Pura Vida

LOL!

This song explain Epicurean philosophy. But is in Italian.

Lyrics:
Il medico vero è quello che cura il corpo malato che bene non stà.

Filosofo vero, assai veritiero è quello che il Vero dell'anima dà.

La malattia dell'anima è la non verità che turbamenti ti regala fino a sazietà.

Dal niente niente, nessun ente ma potrà dissolversi nel nulla, no no no.

Il piacere fa bene. Il dolore fa male. Basta solo provare per potere capire.

La suprema virtute stà nel viver felice; il supremo piacere nel dolore kaput.

Assente il dolore la vita è OK. Assente il dolore la vita è mejor.

Un sapere che non dà felicità anche se poggia sulla Verità è privo di valore, credi a me.

Nel mio "Giardino", la felicità si beve come un'acqua frizzantina.

Lascia l'innaturale, la città e i calcoli del male espellerai.

Google translation:

The real doctor is the one who takes care of the sick body that is not good.

True philosopher, very truthful is what the True of the soul gives.

The sickness of the soul is the untruth that upsets you up to satiety.

From nothing nothing, no entity but can dissolve into nothingness, no no no.

Pleasure is good. Pain hurts. Just try to understand.

The supreme virtue lies in happy living; the supreme pleasure in kaput pain.

Absent pain life is OK. Absent the pain, life is better.

A knowledge that does not give happiness even if it is based on Truth is worthless, believe me.

In my "Garden", happiness is drunk like sparkling water.

Leave the unnatural, the city and you will expel the calculations of evil.

WOW Michele that italian song is a great addition. Can you tell us anything about who wrote it, put it together, etc?

(And of course Mattheu/LD I love AC too!)

Ooooh I just realized that the music video unfortunately places Plato in a favorable light! And does it contain a picture of Epicurus? Looks like some remedial work needs to be done!

Il medico vero è quello che cura il corpo malato che bene non stà.

Filosofo vero, assai veritiero è quello che il Vero dell'anima dà.

La malattia dell'anima è la non verità che turbamenti ti regala fino a sazietà.

Dal niente niente, nessun ente ma potrà dissolversi nel nulla, no no no.

Il piacere fa bene. Il dolore fa male. Basta solo provare per potere capire.

La suprema virtute stà nel viver felice; il supremo piacere nel dolore kaput.

Assente il dolore la vita è OK. Assente il dolore la vita è mejor.

Un sapere che non dà felicità anche se poggia sulla Verità è privo di valore, credi a me.

Nel mio "Giardino", la felicità si beve come un'acqua frizzantina.

Lascia l'innaturale, la città e i calcoli del male espellerai.

My effort and rearranging / improving, without attention yet to rhyme or making it singable.
Personally I have to adjust both 6 and 7 to avoid reinforcing the apparent conclusion that all that is necessary in life is to remove pain. In April 2019 I think too many people who don't understand the Epicurean proposition that there are only two feelings, which means that the amount of one that is present is the amount the other is absent, could read it as recommending giving up, Stoic suppression of all emotion, or even committing suicide. Only if you first understand that when one is absent the other is present can you see that absence of pains means presence of pleasures, and that's one of the biggest challenges we have in explaining Epicurean philosophy, since most of the world does not believe that.

So as a start as to meaning, not as to smoothness:

1 The true doctor is the one who takes care of the sick whose bodies are not well.

2 So the true philosopher is he who brings truth to heal the soul.

3 The soul is sick because it mistakenly believes that it cannot be satisfied.

4 But nothing comes from nothing, nothing dissolves into nothing.

5 Pleasure is good. Pain hurts. That is all you need to understand.

6 The most virtuous life is that which is most happy; the most happy life is that which has the most pleasure and the least pain.

7 With a little pain life is still good, but with less pain and more pleasure life is better.

8 Knowledge that does not bring happiness is worthless, even if it is true.

9 In my Garden we drink happiness like sparkling water.

10 Leave the unnatural, leave the crowds, and you will escape the plots of evil men.

Quote from Cassius

WOW Michele that italian song is a great addition. Can you tell us anything about who wrote it, put it together, etc?

(And of course Mattheu/LD I love AD too!)

It is a work of Natale Missale of 50 song. He tries to explain all the story of philosophy.
(https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B00…=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp)

There are three songs for Plato, three for Aristotele and just one for Epicurus...

That figures!

Well, he did a decent job of pulling out some key points from Epicurus, so I'll give him credit for that.

Here is a song, which I see as being Epicurean. This shows how the memory of pleasure is medicine for when small pains in life arise. This clip is from the 1965 movie "The Sound of Music" and it was on TV quite often when I was a child (in the 70's). It must have aired sometime during the winter months. And now also, I see that it illustrates the Epicurean full cup of pleasure in life.

That is excellent!

Someone who has been around a while remind me -- Elayne has cited another clip from Sound of Music that was particularly relevant (?) Or was it from Mary Poppins? I remember that it was new to me when she posted it so worth cross linking to this Sound of Music post.

Hmm searching Sound of Music does not produce it. I remember it being something that made a specifically good point about pleasure -- but I don't think it was "Spoonful of Sugar" -- it was something "softer." So maybe it wasn't from Sound of Music but I could almost swear it was Julie Andrews.

Duh - I was wrong. It is Julie Andrews and the same movie, but it's not about pleasure but "Nothing from Nothing"

Perfect Epicurean physics -- "Nothing comes from nothing - nothing ever could!" Maybe good for a Valentine special as well.

RE: Episode Six - Step One: Nothing Comes From Nothing

You know maybe we need a thread or category for "Epicurean Love Songs."

Hard to beat:

"For here you are, standing there, loving me - whether or not you should;

So somewhere in my youth or childhood, I must have done something good;

Nothing comes from nothing, nothing ever could;

So somewhere in my youth, or childhood, I must have done something good."

Quote from Cassius

So somewhere in my youth or childhood, I must have done something good;

Nothing comes from nothing, nothing ever could;

I see this "nothing comes from nothing" as having a commonality with the Buddhist view of "causes and conditions" and "inter-dependent co-arising"...and so the "I" here depends on all our past social influences.

In which case...we are all here on the EF forum because of something (some earlier conditions) from our childhood or past experiences.

As for the "Sound of Music" movie...now I need/want to watch it again. It was a very long time ago since I last saw it. Also the "good" in this song's lyrics is probably referring to an element of "virtue" and so people in both friendship and romance are drawn by "virtue" because this leads to security and mental pleasure. So this would be the "virtue which leads to pleasure" within Epicureanism.

KICKS? That road leads nowhere. Kicks just keep getting harder to find, and all your kicks ain't bringing you peace of mind. Before you find out it's too late, you better get straight ---

Quote from Cassius

KICKS? That road leads nowhere.

That song illustrates PD10:

"If the things that produce the delights of those who are decadent washed away the mind's fears about astronomical phenomena and death and suffering, and furthermore if they taught us the limits of our pains and desires, then we would have no complaints against them, since they would be filled with every joy and would contain not a single pain or distress (and that's what is bad)." (Saint-Andre translation)

There's a thread somewhere discussing in detail why to not use drugs (also PD8 reminds one to avoid that which brings bad pains later).

This song, only for the chorus:

Cause I got a peaceful easy feelin'

And I know you won't let me down

'Cause I'm already standin'
On the ground

Taking the words at the literal meaning, this chorus talks about a good friendship (when you know someone won't let you down) and when you have your feet on the ground you are connected to the real world and you are safe and secure in body and mind.

Are You Having Any Fun?

by Elaine Stritch,

released in 1956,

lyrics by Jack Yellen in 1939.

Never heard that one! thanks!