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Welcomes Charles
I see you like Indian classical music, so you'll enjoy the music I chose for my video "I Call You to Constant Pleasures" with quotes by Epicurus. It's a beautiful melody. Cassius wasn't into Indian music and sought to change the tune (the song is actually by musicians from Germany), but I loved and relished this song from the moment I heard it.
Nate is a bit south-west of where it went. I wrote "A Teachable Moment with Hurricane Dorian"
https://theautarkist.wordpress.com/2019/09/04/a-t…rricane-dorian/
I moved this thread into the Frederick the Great subforum. I see the article actually labels him an Epicurean. I might at some point move Frederick into the "Epicurean" forum category, but before I did that I would want to see evidence that Frederick ever referred to himself explicitly as an Epicurean.
This is the most inequivocal quote
Frederick left no doubt about his Epicureanism. In 1749, at the age of 37, he published a 200-line poem called On Pleasure. Blanning (p. 156) reports that in it, Frederick “begins with a dismissal of the intense but short-lived and dangerous carnal delights offered by prostitutes” (much like Epicurus did) but that he seeks to “combine a hundred different pleasures to create just one.”
“He declared that he would,” reports Blanning, “always follow the Epicurean gospel.” Epicurus’s term for this one pleasure is ataraxia, a pleasant, untroubled state of mind. An Epicurean is not obliged to maintain this state at all times but is encouraged to follow its guiding light. Frederick did, and this may be, in no small measure, what made him great.
I don’t know how well he knows the physics but he’s a librarian and very well read.
When I think of theory of contemplation I am thinking mainly of this quote by Sam Harris:
https://samharris.org/killing-the-buddha/
A Contemplative Science
What the world most needs at this moment is a means of convincing human beings to embrace the whole of the species as their moral community. For this we need to develop an utterly nonsectarian way of talking about the full spectrum of human experience and human aspiration. We need a discourse on ethics and spirituality that is every bit as unconstrained by dogma and cultural prejudice as the discourse of science is. What we need, in fact, is a contemplative science, a modern approach to exploring the furthest reaches of psychological well-being.
So my neighbor Fran, who has for years considered himself an Epicurean after reading my book, now says he considers himself "agnostic"--that he is OK with "not knowing" (presumably, about God).
He has said this to me after having experienced with mushrooms, and having enjoyed subsequent ecstatic states of mind after his experience, which opened his mind to a whole new reality. I did not try to change his mind, simply have been listening, and he is a friend first and foremost regardless of his views.
It seems to me now that he has equated Epicureanism as a form of atheism (although I think he knows it isn't), and I wonder if he sees Epicureanism as an "ism", a dogmatic and somewhat closed-minded philosophy insofar as it is separate from his recent experiences and he seems to have difficulty reconciling them with E-ism.
I wonder also if this association between philosophy and "sober reasoning" (as per the L Menoeceus) means (to some people, at least) that Epicureanism makes irrational / ecstatic experiences difficult to assimilate. I always thought that, in its embrace of FEELING, E-ism actually promoted these experiences.
Either way, it seems like pious or religious experiences (even natural ones, like the ones induced by mushrooms) can be powerful enough to swerve someone into a new path. I think the times we live in require new, coherently Epicurean explanations of mysticism that are based on the study of nature. The ancient ones (where divine photons from outer space interfere with our mind) are not, in my view, convincing. There is need, I think, for a new set of theories of mysticism.
Over the last weekend, with the help of my neighbor and friend, I painted my apartment. It was a tiresome process. We worked for more than 13 hours on Sunday. In order to make the labor more pleasant, we played 80s songs. When the process was nearly over, he reminded me that the amount of work he did over the weekend was proof of how much he loved me. The last time I had a friend this warm was during my college years.
After the chaos of re-inventing my space completely over the weekend, I feel like we created new memories, and I also feel that the space reflects an inner change in me and in my life. Now, when I look at the new colors of my walls, I am reminded also of my friendship and the warmth, familiarity, and love, which found a token in the act of painting itself. The Havamal attests to the importance of giving friends concrete tokens of our respect and love.
With presents friends should please each other,
With a shield or a costly coat:
Mutual giving makes for friendship
So long as life goes well.
Stanza 41, Havamal
The Havamal also says that when friends do not complain about the distance they travel to see each other, that is also a proof of true friendship, so there are other ways in which friendship can be made concrete, tokenized. And it says that not everyone who smiles at us, or who laughs at our jokes, is a friend.
The takeaway here is that friendship requires concrete tokens, concrete, direct, unmediated experiences, to grow and to be true friendship. (This can be time spent, favors done, words of advice imparted, etc. not just "gifts"). They act as proof, as evidence, of the friendship that is there, but also cement it and build memories. I've frequently talked about the importance of making philosophy tangible, the same goes for friendship.
Dubitator314 welcome to the group. I wrote a review of Lanpe s book : http://societyofepicurus.com/cyrenaic-reasonings/
Ants are collectivist up to the point where they give their lives for the colony ... but mammals are not. The key to understand Epicurean ethics is in PD 20: nature should not be forced. The move from is to ought is not experienced by sentient beings as strongly as some philosophers seem to think. What Epicurus is saying is that we should follow our nature.
Also E says that from time to time we will see a sage giving his life for a friend or loved one. The way this passes hedonic calculus is that we love the person so much that without them life is not worth living. Metrodorus also said we go through great pains for friends because we wish to avoid the pain of not having them.
I've read that the reason why people lose their appetite when they're sick is because the body conserves all its energy for healing / for the immune system to use. Digestion takes up a huge amount of energy, so by giving the stomach a break, the body does not have to use its energy for digestion and instead works to get rid of toxins.
There's also research on cancer patients and how fasting, together with juicing, helps to diminish the side effects of chemotherapy. So again, it goes on healing mode (the shamans of most ancient peoples also use fasting, so apparently this is a very ancient practice).
this reminds me of On Moral Development, where Epicurus refers to the fully mature character as "finished product", and a character in the process of moral development as a "developing product"
http://societyofepicurus.com/synopsis-of-ep…al-development/
Also Epicurus did give instructions on innovation so presumably the founders considered EP as an evolving phenomenon, inevitably (and the assignation of authority to the CANON also seems to indicate this: the five senses, pleasure-pain faculty and anticipations are the ultimate arbiters of reality and of values, not Epicurus).
Panel and interview sound the least boring and the most likely to keep people coming and to generate opportunities for useful and relevant content.
It would also be of mutual benefit for Epicureans to participate in popular philosophy podcasts like Partially Examined Life and others, and to expand presence and content on youtube.
This reminds me of Michel Onfray's praise of ancient philosophers who rejected Stoicism because they felt that they had to be true to their bodies and wanted to philosophize with their bodies--making the body a token of one's conscience because it represents that which we know with all our being to be true.
I don't know if you've seen this before, Joshua but I have a full series of essays on Horace (on whose shoulders you stand as an Epicurean poet)
http://societyofepicurus.com/in-memory-of-horace-carpe-diem/
His Epistle to the Pisos (the same family who hired Philodemus to teach them philosophy in Herculaneum) is also called "Art of Poetry" and contains Horace's advise to poets and writers.
Here's my review of a book of the Cyrenaics
http://societyofepicurus.com/cyrenaic-reasonings/
Onfray also has a lot to say about them and about Aristippus
I read that essay recently. These discussions must have taken place at the onset of the Garden, because by the time Diogenes was writing I do not believe there is evidence of any Cyrenaic school, so I believe this means that Diogenes was citing or re-stating discussions from earlier, probably quoting from the founders themselves.
Nice to see this! I hope you take pictures and post a full report so that I can post it on SoFE website!
A system of points: List them, and add (from 10 to 1, or from 5 to 1) according to order of priority, then add them. This is just to provide guidance and to systematize, to provide a graphic representation of what really matters.
