Posts by Don

While I certainly see where Cassius is coming from in his posts above and I don't think he's saying what I'm adding next, I want to add that Epicureans are not going to go looking for or initiating "conflict/confrontation and danger."

Would an Epicurean defend herself against attack? Of course! To protect one's life is of paramount importance.

Would an Epicurean confront an injustice and support means to alleviate that injustice? Yes, most likely, but they would seek to understand the context.

Would an Epicurean willingly risk danger for a friend? Absolutely!

But I'm highly skeptical of the Epicurean putting themselves in harm's way needlessly or recklessly. I don't see the Epicurean "picking a fight." Will they fight if the alternative is more pain? Yes. That's the difference I want to emphasize in this thread from my perspective.

Quote from Cassius

It may be observed in passing that St. Paul quoted the words Peace and Safety as catchwords of the Epicureans, to whom he refused the honor of mention by name.69

For the record: Footnote 69 is merely a citation to 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Nothing to support Dewitt's contention it was an Epicurean "catchword" is contained in that footnote.

Quote from Cassius

Regretfully I am going to have to announce another one week postponement of this episode.

You're just building anticipation

Quote from Cassius

It sure would but Don that link doesn't work for me.

Let's try again...

Plato, Timaeus, section 17a

Would Perseus' Lamb translation be helpful?

https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?do…80%3atext%3dTim.

411 sounds more like the Biblical and Gilgamesh floods... Or just floods in general.

Again, from all I've seen, there's nothing to show Atlantis was a real place.

The MEGA hats, honestly, give me pause even though I get the tongue in cheek aspect.

Is it possible or even desirable to get the piglet or SFOTSE or even a graphic Epicurus on a hat?

Quote from JamesPConnolly

Well well, I was reading one of the four letters a few days ago, the one to Pythocles

The podcast team did a great job in going through that letter. There's a lot more going on in there than I realized:

Lucretius Today Episode Guide - Epicureanfriends.com

www.epicureanfriends.com

All evidence points to Plato making Atlantis up for rhetorical purposes. Everybody points back to him. The podcast series I posted does a good job of debunking the myth, and also goes into the nasty white supremacist uses of the myth as well.

CASSIUS ADMIN NOTE: I am splitting this off from another thread (link here)so as not to divert that one. My main interest at the moment is to trace back in outline form the question of what the Epicureans and/or other ancients might have thought about this question, given the importance of the Timaeus in Greek ideas about world history and the nature of the world as a whole. Don's links may answer that question already but I think the topic is worthy of being clear so we can relate that aspect to the rest of Plato's discussion of creation and world history.

Was the entire story of Atlantis, and/or the rest of his creation story, understood by the ancients to be allegorical?

Quote from Cassius

This is the source (or part of the source) of the story of Atlantis, so it's interesting for lots of reasons.

Just for the record, there was no physical place called Atlantis. It is entirely a literary invention of Plato to make a philosophical point.

Atlantis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

While some leave open the idea that Plato may have been *inspired* by accounts of the eruption of Thera or other events, the "myth of Atlantis" is just that - a myth.

The podcast Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! did an excellent series on Atlantis:

Atlantis — Let's Talk About Myths, Baby!

www.mythsbaby.com

Quote from Cassius

This is the source (or part of the source) of the story of Atlantis, so it's interesting for lots of reasons.

Just for the record, there was no physical place called Atlantis. It is entirely a literary invention of Plato to make a philosophical point.

Atlantis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

While some leave open the idea that Plato may have been *inspired* by accounts of the eruption of Thera or other events, the "myth of Atlantis" is just that - a myth.

The podcast Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! did an excellent series on Atlantis:

Atlantis — Let's Talk About Myths, Baby!

www.mythsbaby.com

Welcome aboard!

For anyone who would like to see my script along with notes and citations to the ancient texts (along with excerpts), I've uploaded that file to the forum at:

File

Bread and Water: Debunking the Idea of Epicurean Asceticism - Text and Notes

Did Epicurus advocate for an “ascetic way of life” or not?

Don

January 26, 2025 at 5:15 PM

Welcome aboard, Singleton ! Thanks for sharing your path here.

Quote from Singleton

I arrived at Epicureanism by way of Stoicism.

You'll find that a common thread for many of us.

Quote from Singleton

having flirted with, then abandoned, Buddhism, I found this ancient Greek philosophy to be a breath of fresh air

Ditto on the Buddhism.

The almost modern perspective of Epicurus definitely made me take notice. Now, I'll have been a member of this forum (I always feel I should say agora since Epicurus was Greek ) five years now next month. It is a welcoming place. Enjoy the stay!

Quote from Bryan

Does not this mean there is a separation between our theory and our practice? If Newton works in the real world, perhaps he is mostly all we need.

Wading into an area in which I have no expertise...

It seems to me that Newton handles the big picture, Einstein allowed us to see the relative nature of the cosmos, and quantum physics handles the cosmos at the submicroscopic world in all its weirdness. My understanding is that Newton, Einstein, and quantum mechanics all explain the realms that they intend to explain. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle doesn't break through into the macro world but that doesn't mean it's not operating.

Here's a link to my "Where was the Garden?" paper:

File

Where was the Garden of Epicurus? The Evidence from the Ancient Sources and Archaeology

While we will probably never know the exact location of Epicurus’s Garden in ancient Athens, we can take a number of educated guesses.

Don

April 19, 2023 at 11:10 PM

And the impromptu live presentation:

Attic numerals - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Χ̣ΧΧ̣ΓΗΗΗΗ

XXX = 3,000

But from that, it looks like it should be 3,900.

Although I don't know how they even got any number...

One of the most poignant groups of victims are the ones discovered in the boat sheds and warehouss on the shore, all ages huddled together, waiting for ships that would never come.

I know I said desires come in 4 categories and only mentioned 3. Mea culpa.

In my defense, I was thinking of this from the letter to Menoikeus (and yes I'm splitting this idiosyncratically):

• Furthermore, on the one hand, there are
  • the natural desires;
  • on the other, the 'empty, fruitless, or vain ones.'
  • And of the natural ones, on the one hand, are
    • the necessary ones;
    • on the other, the ones which are only natural; then,
    • of the necessary ones:
      • on the one hand, those necessary for eudaimonia;
      • then, those necessary for the freedom from disturbance for the body;
      • then those necessary for life itself.

"Ain't no party like an Anti-Lucretius party, cause an Anti-Lucretius party don't stop!"