Posts by Kalosyni

Happy Birthday Julia!

Welcome to the forum claire46

You might like this basic introductory video by Cassius:

There are a number of differences between Epicureanism and Stoicism, and so you will want to check out this chart made by Cassius on the differences between Epicurean philosophy and Stoic philosophy:

A Comparison Chart on “The Goal of Life” – NewEpicurean

Happy New Year!

Some of us depending on where we live have already crossed into the new year, and others of us will soon.

This thread is for all to use to send out greetings for the new year!

Also, you are welcome to share any personal resolutions or ideas for how you want to make 2026 a great year...and also Epicurean thoughts too!

Happy New Year!

Welcome to the forum Hyakinthos !

It was a good meeting back on Sunday, and one question came up for me afterward, which is regarding the idea of security...can we accurately judge if we are living a life that is safe or not, and whether our basic need for security is being met?

Epicurus said that the first quick, easy, and commonly used understanding regarding a thing (or a word) is the best one to use (I can't remember the exact words or where that is). But also seems important to look at actual situations.

For our current time, it almost becomes about statistics (or being in the wrong place at the wrong time) - we are generally safe, but not totally safe (and it may depend on where one lives). With mass shootings happening, It seems these days if you want kids to "be safer", then homeschooling and attending an online college might help.

According to the article by Austin, we need (and have a natural and necessary need) to feel safe from being violently killed by others and this can't be done through reasoning because it isn't caused by irrational ideas. It can only be done "politically" meaning through creating laws and ways to make society safe.

Quote from DaveT

So, rather than “just one more bite,” perhaps just one bite (or what the heck—two or three) can be the answer while enjoying friendship and family during the holidays.

Somehow, I think that I have developed what is called a "sweet tooth", and which I notice that the more "goodies" that I eat the more that I crave. (I've bought/made a certain amount of Christmas goodies this year, perhaps a bit too many).

When I clean up my diet by eating whole foods rather than processed (cutting out bread, desserts, snacks) then the sweet tooth cravings actually easily subside and I greatly enjoy eating fruits and vegetables. And not having the "goodies" in my house helps with decreasing cravings. This is just my personal experience, and everyone is different.

Wishing Everyone a Merry Christmas!

I think it is important here in this forum to speak up when seeing articles written which say or imply that "Epicurus said to do XYZ" when there isn't speciic textual evidence.

Quote from Kalosyni

Now, here is where this seems to be a phrase that seems to be a kind of remedy -- when we are genuinely hungry we will feel pain, and when we no longer feel that pain from hunger then we no longer need the pleasure of eating.

I think that this remedy is only for those who need it, and also worth remembering that the letter mentions that it is not the pleasures of the profligates that are being referred to as pleasures.

Also, we can anticipate that the pleasures of eating, although transitory, they are reoccuring and "easy to get".

Some thoughts on a practical application of the phrase: "...but when we do not feel pain, we no longer need pleasure."

The following is Bailey translation:

[128] "The right understanding of these facts enables us to refer all choice and avoidance to the health of the body and (the soul’s) freedom from disturbance, since this is the aim of the life of blessedness. For it is to obtain this end that we always act, namely, to avoid pain and fear. And when this is once secured for us, all the tempest of the soul is dispersed, since the living creature has not to wander as though in search of something that is missing, and to look for some other thing by which he can fulfill the good of the soul and the good of the body. For it is then that we have need of pleasure, when we feel pain owing to the absence of pleasure; (but when we do not feel pain), we no longer need pleasure."

I've been thinking about how the ending of this paragraph pertains to eating food. When I was a kid and teen, and also in my 20's, food to me was very "unimportant". Growing up my family rarely went out to restuarants, and my mom often did not use spices or salt in her cooking, and there were very few snacks kept on hand. In my 20's living on my own, I cooked very simple food and sometimes skipped lunch just because I was too busy. Then approx. in my early 30's I started shopping at Trader Joe's (lived in California at that time)... and this was for me a beginning of a California "foodie" culture (healthy, sometimes organic, but also special cheese and specialty snacks.) And I think as time went on the American culture also really amped-up the concept of "food enjoyment" through various products and advertizing for restuarants.

Now what do you do when when the quanties of food available are so great, and eating becomes a desire for experiencing various tasty things... "just one more bite" or "just one more taste of this or that"...and suddenly you are carrying around 10 extra pounds of "love-handles" or a "muffin-top" belly that you can't seem to get rid of (and eating too much brings on a bloated feeling or lethargy) -- all of which is not conducive to living well and most pleasantly.

Now, here is where this seems to be a phrase that seems to be a kind of remedy -- when we are genuinely hungry we will feel pain, and when we no longer feel that pain from hunger then we no longer need the pleasure of eating.

Quote from Patrikios

In "Choosing to Remember and to Forget," Hiram Crespo speaks of nuktos meleta, the evening practice that Epicurus himself prescribed.

A word of caution here, that the writings by Hiram that are referred to in the above post can be characterized as unique interpretations of Epicurean philosophy that: at times incorporate elements and ideas from external sources -- and at times are speculative in nature (do not come from direct textual evidence).

Quote from Patrikios

Did we accomplish what we set out to do? Did we treat others with the kindness and fairness we expect for ourselves? Where did we fall short, and what might we do differently tomorrow to move closer to ataraxia?

If we look directly at the Letter to Menoeceus we see at the end of the letter this paragraph:

"Meditate therefore on these things and things akin to them night and day by yourself; and with a companion like to yourself, and never shall you be disturbed waking or asleep, but you shall live like a god among men. For a man who lives among immortal blessings is not like unto a mortal being."

It says that the time to practice is "night and day" so this instead refers to doing it all the time (not just at night). And we see no mention of striving for a "perfect" ataraxia (by analysis of how we might have fallen short). The Letter to Menoeceus doesn't mention "treating others with kindness and fairness", but it does talk about dealing with the fear of death and also making good choices and avoidances.

So the best way to determine what Epicurus taught is to read the ancient extant texts, and I highly recommend doing so.

Coming up this next Sunday...is Fourth Sunday Zoom, open to forum members!

And a special invitation to our new members: EdGenX  D Campbell  jcblackmon  Daniel188  Creative Air  wbernys (and anyone else I may have missed listing).

Well be basing our discussion on the article by Emily Austin (linked in the previous post in this thread). Reading the article is optional -- I'll give a brief summary of the article before the discussion, and I'll frame the discussion questions so that everyone will have a chance to participate.

Please RSVP here in this thread (anyone who hasn't previously attended a Sunday Zoom)...so that we can add you to the private Zoom link conversation which goes out the day before the meeting.

(P.S. Depending on how many new people attend, the meeting may run slightly longer than usual to accommodate full participation and any questions).

Welcome to the forum jcblackmon !

Welcome to the forum D Campbell !

Happy Twentieth Everyone!

Quote from Daniel188

My intention wasn't necessarily to demonstrate that Seneca could offer any useful philosophical advice for Epicureans. Rather, I'm aiming to distill the specific exercise itself. In this case, regularly reviewing everyday events in order to learn from them.

In fact, I could have omitted Seneca's quote from this post altogether. I included it more as a curiosity that some ancient people used something like this.

I didn't see this post till after posting my reply.

But it is ending up as a fun "compare and contrast". (Hopefully fun, lol).

Here is the first part of the quote above, which has a different goal than in Epicurean philosophy:

"All our senses should be educated into strength: they are naturally able to endure much, provided that the spirit forbears to spoil them. The spirit ought to be brought up for examination daily. It was the custom of Sextius when the day was over, and he had betaken himself to rest, to inquire of his spirit: “What bad habit of yours have you cured to-day? what vice have you checked? in what respect are you better?”

I seems to suggest that a "perfectly virtuous" person will live a pleasant life, however it is also brings with the suggestion that this can only be done through the subjugation of emotions. This is not Epicurean, as we need emotions to see what is pleasurable and what is painful. The only people who need to subjugate their emotions are those who are pursuing empty/vain desires (great wealth, high status, etc) - since these are are difficult and painful to pursue.

There are times that anger is helpful, which is talked about by Philodemus. So that is an added layer that isn't covered here.

I would suggest doing internal self-reflection only on an as needed basis (and not nightly), when one feels internal distress. One could examine what is going on and think about how to make better choices in the future. Self-harm from over-indulgence (food or alcohol) results in physical discomfort, and the Epicurean takes note of bad results and thinks about what to do differently next time. Also, the Epicurean naturally understands that any time one causes harm to another human being that there will be consequences -- mental uneasiness and disturbance will result and the person harmed will seek restitution or retribution, lawfully or otherwise (or their friends or family will seek restitution or retribution) -- or if minor harmful actions are done then their reputation and trust will be lost.

Quote from Daniel188

We reflect on what we've accomplished from our planned tasks. We appreciate ourselves for completing them and allow ourselves to feel satisfied with our goals.

We reflect on what we didn't achieve and why. Was it due to a lack of desire, fatigue, or perhaps something that happened during the day that caused us to lose motivation? We don't rely on first impressions, which are often misleading, caused by regret or irritation. We try to calmly find the real cause of our failure.

The words here seems to point toward something that ought to be reflected on when starting ones day at an office or job -- a professional work issue -- and possibly the need to implement good time management skills.

Instead of thinking about work at the end of the day, it seems like an Epicurean might be more focused on all the pleasant things that happened - practicing gratitude for ones friends and family and reliving any happy/fun/pleasurable events that happened earlier in the day...anything that one appreciates.

So now thinking... an Epicurean might like to create a nightly habit of practicing gratitude and appreciation, and happy recollections on a nightly basis.

Also, adding in from Usener fragments...

48. It is better for you to be free of fear lying upon a pallet, than to have a golden couch and a rich table and be full of trouble.

Which could be shortened to: -------> A calm mind free from disturbance is more valuable than external riches.

Quote from Eikadistes

I'm fond of our Golden Rule, which might be a candidate (KD32):

μὴ βλάπτειν μηδὲ βλάπτεσθαι

neither harm nor be harmed

Though, that's just the formula for justice. The formula for an ethics of pleasure also includes being "noble" and "prudent", in addition to being "just" (KD5). At least, KD32 is a nice line I like to dispense.

Thanks! ...all of that needs to be included in a list of Epicurean ethics.

We are in the process of revising our member level designations, and we will eventually post these in a more prominent place. These levels have evolved over the years to designate different things, and they will likely evolve in the future.

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Edit note: The contents of this post were edited and approved by the Forum Admin.