We've talked about creating "meaning" in the past (over in other threads...I'll need to see where those are and add links.
There is a whole sub-form on "meaning"...
Posts by Kalosyni
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This thread can be used to discuss the similarities and differences between modern ideas of creating well-being and joy, vs. Epicurean philosophical ideas.
The following is from a search using Google:
A life of well-being and joy is built on a balance of physical health, meaningful connections, and personal fulfillment. Rather than a single path, it combines daily habits and long-term practices that nourish your mind, body, and spirit.
Here is a list of the foundational elements that have been found to lead to lasting joy according to modern psychology:
--- Mind & Emotion
- Cultivate Gratitude: Actively appreciating the present helps shift your focus from what you lack to what you already possess.
- Practice Mindfulness: Grounding yourself in the "now" prevents anxiety about the past or future, and lets you savor everyday pleasures.
- Embrace Continuous Learning: Expanding your knowledge base or learning a new hobby stimulates the brain and provides deep fulfillment.
- Find a Sense of Purpose: Engaging in work or hobbies that give your life meaning, or pursuing your passions, drives intrinsic happiness.
--- Connection & Meaning
- Nurture Relationships: Building close bonds with friends, family, and a support network gives you a sense of belonging and buffers against stress.
- Help Others: Engaging in community service or simply being kind and motivating others increases your own happiness and empathy.
--- Health & Body
- Prioritize Rest and Sleep: Allowing your body and mind to recharge is essential for emotional regulation, stress reduction, and overall wellness.
- Stay Physically Active: Moving your body—whether through structured exercise or simply spending time walking in nature—releases endorphins that elevate mood.
- Nourish Your Body: Fueling yourself with healthy, balanced foods provides sustained energy and supports mental health.
--- Lifestyle & Environment
- Establish Financial Peace: Creating a financial plan and budget reduces long-term anxiety and provides security.
- Engage in the Arts and Play: Participating in creative outlets or simply experiencing arts, culture, and play boosts contentment and helps process emotions.
- Spend Time in Nature: Getting fresh air and stepping outside has been proven by psychologists to increase happiness and lower stress.
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Epicurean philosophy is much more abstract. It does bring forward the importance of friendship. But it allows each person to decide for themselves what brings pleasure.
We've talked about creating "meaning" in the past (over in other threads...I'll need to see where those are and add links.
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Some people are perfectly fine with sacrificing the struggle of their own creativity because AI can write/paint/sing/play faster and better. Those people don't seem to see the point in slow betterment of their limited human potential since they have been presented with the opportunity of godlike simulacrum. Why to struggle with inferior human quality when you can effortlessly obtain godlike results?
Two interesting ideas: calling what AI produces as "godlike" and "godlike simulacrum". I hadn't thought of it that way, nor do I now. I simply see it as an interesting phenomenon, some of which I occassionally find is good/pleasing to me.
Deeper questions that each person may answer differently for themselves: How does AI creativity make you feel? Does using AI cause bad (or painful) consequences or does it sometimes bring pleasure? Is there such a thing as AI that is "done well"? What about wider consequences for the environment and society? And now we are seeing everyone say "not in my backyard" about data centers.
Also, consider this: that there is a large amount of purely human-made art that is "bad" art -- but who decides what is "bad" art? For myself I have two categories: 1) "interesting" art, of a type that is "a curiosity" (and that which I personally consider "bad" and also which makes me feel unpleasant emotions (I'm using the word "interesting" as sarcasm here). 2) "good" art, of a type that I find is skillfully rendered according to my own personal standards and it also gives me pleasure to experience it (and of course this is very subjective).
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From Lucretius, 3-228 to 2-323:
QuoteHeat prevails in the mind when the creature is enraged, grows hot, and fire sparkles from its glowing eyes. Much vapor is cold, and the companion of fear, it excites horror in the body, and shakes the limbs; but air is of a calm and mild quality, it resides in a quiet breast, and a serene countenance. But those have most heat whose hearts are fierce, and whose angry mind are soon inflamed into passion. of this sort, in the first place, is the distracted Fury of lions, who, roaring, often burst their very breast, and are unable to contain the torrent of Rage that swells within. The cold temperature of the deer has more of vapor, and sooner incites a chillness in the limbs,which causes a trembling motion through the whole body. But the nature of the ox consists more of soft air, nor does the smoky firebrand of anger (that spreads a shade of black darkness over the mind) too much inflame him, nor is he stupefied by the darts of chilling fear, but his nature is placed between both, between the fierce lion and the deer."
The mind of man is formed of the same principles; though the discipline of philosophy may polish and correct some, yet it leaves behind the marks of the original nature of the mind, nor are we to think that the seeds of vice can be wholly rooted out. One man, we see, runs more rashly into passion, another is more disposed to fear, and a third is apt to be more merciful than just; It is impossible but the various tempers of mankind, and actions that follow them, must differ in many other instances, the reasons of which are at present out of my power to explain; nor can I find words to express that variety of figures by which the seeds are distinguished, and from which this variety of disposition is produced. This, however, may justly be asserted on this occasion: that the traces of original nature which cannot be corrected by the rules of reason are so very small that nothing hinders us from leading a life worthy of the Gods.
And for a comparison, this is an interesting article:
From Grumpy Old Man to "Irritable Male Syndrome"What some call "irritable male syndrome" may be better understood as a meaningful response to stress, loss, aging, or unmet needs.www.psychologytoday.comQuoteOne reality often overlooked in conversations about men’s mental health is this: Many men are raised with the implicit understanding that anger is the one culturally acceptable emotion they’re allowed to express. Sadness, fear, vulnerability, and grief are often discouraged—or worse, mocked. It should come as no surprise, then, that when life becomes heavier, anger and irritability are frequently the emotional languages men bring with them into later adulthood.
Fatigue, low mood, and reduced tolerance for stress can be understood not as signs of pathology, but as natural responses to cumulative stress, shifting roles, physical changes, and the felt decline of vital energy. Importantly, irritability is not the exclusive domain of older men; it appears across genders, cultures, and developmental stages.
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Rather than asking whether IMS is a real condition, a more productive question might be: What are these experiences trying to tell us?
Instead of treating irritability, fatigue, and low stress tolerance as symptoms to be eradicated, we might view them as signals—messages from a system that deserves attention rather than correction. Aging, after all, is not a disorder. It is a developmental stage, complete with its own challenges, losses, and opportunities for meaning.
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Lucretius talks about the nature of the soul in Book III, starting at line 231:
EpicureanFriends Side-By-Side LucretiusMulti-column side-by-side Lucretius text comparison tool featuring Munro, Bailey, Dunster, and Condensed editions.handbook.epicureanfriends.com -
This thread is to cross-reference the following blog, and provide a place for further discussion:
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celestineyes22 Welcome to the forum!
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Within "pleasure" there is tranquility, blessedness, painlessness, joy, delight, happiness. They're all related, because "the feelings are two." To give the "camp" that emphasizes the absence or removal of pain their due, Epicurus does teach us to work to remove the pain of fear of gods, death; remove the pain from empty desires.
Don Your post got me thinking...perhaps we need to consider that there are "four feelings"...
1. Feelings of mental pleasure
2. Feelings of mental pain
3. Feelings of bodily pleasure
4. Feelings of bodily pain
So, if you remove mental pains, it doesn't necessarily add in bodily pleasure. Just like if you add in bodily pleasure, it doesn't necessary remove mental pains.
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That's what the "war of words" with rest of the world is all about.
There are past ancient "wars of words", and there are current modern "wars of words".
I really think that in modern times pleasure is much more tied to "happiness" and "well-being", where as in ancient times "well-being" was thought to be tied solely to being virtuous.
One specific "war of words" which still continues from ancient times into current times, is with the word "pleasure"...as when you say the word "on the street" it seems to automatically point to excess and debauchery without regard for the consequences. This is one reason why I don't like including the word without a complete explanation of what is meant by it (according to Epicureans).
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The test is: "How often and how clearly and how strongly does the discussion mention pleasure?"
Cassius I wonder if you somehow conceive of happiness being an unpleasant state??
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Same question - must one be totally free of mental suffering in order to be happy?
Thanks for asking...
No, but free from unnecessary mental suffering.
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In regard to "free from suffering" that does not mean totally free, right, because we have the example of Epicurus bring happy on his last days while still under great pain?
I just now added in the word "mental"...so now it reads: free from mental suffering.
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This thread is for cross-referencing and further discussion on the blog article:
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This thread is to cross-reference and provide a place for discussion of the following blog article:
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Don thank you for your tips and advice regarding this, and you gave some helpful links for further research.
This word is connected to αταραξία (ataraxia)
When investigating the word ταράττεσθαι (tarattesthai), I wanted to get as far away as possible from the word ataraxia. Ataraxia says nothing about what is to be removed or avoided.
Apologies, but found this to be of interest... (and after this I will refrain from further posting using AI translation).
QuoteDisplay MoreQuery: how many times is the word αταραξία found in the text of the Letter to Menoeceus ?
Google AI response:
The word αταραξία (specifically in its accusative form, ἀταραξίαν) appears exactly one time in the original Greek text of Epicurus's Letter to Menoeceus. [1]
Where It Appears
The single occurrence is found in Section 128 of the text: [1, 2]
QuoteWhy Is It Only Used Once?
It is a common misconception that the word repeats constantly implying that ataraxia is the central pillar of Epicurean philosophy. However, Epicurus preferred to describe the concept of tranquility using descriptions of what is absent rather than repeating the abstract noun itself: [1, 2, 3, 4]
- Verbal Descriptions: He frequently writes about "not suffering pain" or "not being alarmed". For instance, immediately following his single use of ataraxia, he uses the phrase "ὅπως μήτε ἀλγῶμεν μήτε ταρβῶμεν" ("so that we may neither suffer pain nor feel fear"). [1]
- Alternative Terms: He often relies on words like ἀπορία (lack of physical pain) or shifts to general discussions of ἡδονή (pleasure), defining it purely as the baseline state when all bodily and mental distress is cleared away. [1, 2, 3]
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I know there are mixed feelings for some regarding the use of AI, but I have just discovered that it is quite easy to use Google AI to translate ancient Greek words (but of course we know that errors may surface).
I was working on a particular section of the Letter to Menoeceus, and found this on one of the words...
query: translate into english from ancient greek the following word: ταράττεσθαι
QuoteAI response:
The Ancient Greek verb ταράττεσθαι (tarattesthai) translates to "to be troubled," "to be disturbed," "to be agitated," or "to be thrown into confusion." [1, 2]
It is the present passive/middle infinitive of tarassō (ταράσσω), which literally means to stir up or agitate liquids (like muddying water) and metaphorically refers to unsettling the mind or emotions. [1]
And then I queried (just for fun and comparison):
is this word used in the bible ?
QuoteAI response:
Yes, the underlying verb ταράσσω (tarassō) is used in the New Testament.
While the exact grammatical form ταράττεσθαι (the present passive infinitive) does not explicitly appear in the finalized textual tradition of the New Testament, other inflected variations of the exact same passive verb are used in some of the Bible's most famous passages to describe deep emotional or spiritual distress. [1]
Notable New Testament Uses
In the New Testament, the verb describes profound emotional turmoil, fear, or a troubled mind: [1]
- Jesus' Deep Emotion: When Jesus is deeply moved by the death of Lazarus in John 11:33, the text says he "troubled himself" (ἐτάραξεν ἑαυτόν). Later, facing his impending crucifixion in John 12:27, he cries, "Now my soul is troubled" (ἡ ψυχή μου τετάρακται).
- Comforting the Disciples: In John 14:1, Jesus delivers his famous reassurance: "Do not let your hearts be troubled" (μὴ ταρασσέσθω ὑμῶν ἡ καρδία)—which is the imperative passive form of the exact same word.
- The Disciples' Terror: When the disciples see Jesus walking on water in Matthew 14:26, the text notes they "were terrified" (ἐταράχθησαν). [1, 2]
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Welcome to the forum h.nur beyaz erkizan
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Bryan
Quote from Bryan
For example:
"ómnis énim Cólor omnī́nō mūtā́tur ín ómnīs"
...for every Color is altogether changed into every [color]
However, given Lucretius uses "mūtā́tur," the word "mutated" is a direct descendant:
...for every Color is altogether mutated into every [color]
Bryan, would it then be correct to say that: "when every color changes it is a completely different color" ? -
Here is a conversation moved over from private discussion of translation work:
Raphael Raul said:
Bryan, as I mentioned at today's Epicurean Friends meeting, the translation reads very smoothly in English.
I does not have that structural stiffness that older translations do... Also, your color coding and placing the translation below the Latin, so both are visible together, allows the reader to see your choices clearly... excellent work!... Bravo!
Bryan said:
Quote from TauPhi
start learning Latin
Gratias tibi ago, TauPhi-- I really appreciate that!! I have greatly benefited from your encouragement over the years.
Quote from Raphael Raul
does not have that structural stiffness
Thank you, Raphael Raul-- it is a balance. I have also tried, where possible, to use English words that are etymologically related to the Latin. Sometimes, this requires using less common English words...For example:
"ómnis énim Cólor omnī́nō mūtā́tur ín ómnīs"
...for every Color is altogether changed into every [color]
However, given Lucretius uses "mūtā́tur," the word "mutated" is a direct descendant:
...for every Color is altogether mutated into every [color]
Even though "mutated" carries some baggage in English, it pairs better with the Latin, and is technically not incorrect as "mutated" just means "undergoing alteration or change." There are many such cases!
Occasionally, I feel as though I have no choice but to use an uncommon word... I am not too happy that the first word of the entire work is "Ancestress."
Most translators just use "mother" -- but Lucretius consistently uses a different word that means mother, and "Génetrīx" clearly means "a female ancestor from whom a person is descended"
Don said:
Bryan Fantastic work! Very impressive.
Bryan said:
Quote from Don
work
Thank you, Don. As you know, the text of De Rerum Natura is very stable compared to our Greek sources. There are only a few locations where the two main manuscripts leave us with lacunas. We are on solid ground here... [ ] ...in contrast to the P.Hercs., which leave us drowning in a pool of papyrus dust.
This is my cheeky but sincere apology for what comes next: a standalone On Nature, Περὶ Φύσεως ΛΖ.
Don said:
Quote from Bryan
in contrast to the P.Hercs., which leave us drowning in a pool of papyrus dust.
Well put. That's a bit of nice wordsmithing there On a serious note, I remain excited about the opportunity and potential of the "read without unrolling" technology. I just hope whatever comes out of that is made publicly available.
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