Posts by Cleveland Okie

Thanks Kalosyni, and thank you, Cassius. I will make a real effort to log on more often. I haven't lost interest -- I have read 12 books about Epicureanism since I got interested a few years ago, and I am currently reading Epicurus and His Influence on History by Ben Gazur. I searched for Gazur's name on this forum and couldn't find much of anything other than "Hey, I heard there's a new book about Epicurus coming out," so I will post my comments in a few days after I read.

Thank you for posting this, I did notice it was the 20th. Are there still video get togethers on the 20th?

Joshua and Cassius both recommended "A Few Days in Athens" by Frances Wright, so I wanted to record that I did obtain a copy of it (from Project Gutenberg) and read it; I enjoyed it. Thanks to you both for the recommendation.

I lately decided that I would spend a bit of time each day reading about Epicureanism, or a book that supports my study of Epicureanism. I am currently reading "Knowledge, Reality, and Value: A Mostly Common Sense Guide to Philosophy" by Michael Huemer, because I wanted to read a primer on philosophy, thinking that such a background might aid my Epicurean studies. I tentatively plan to then re-read Emily Austin's book again, then read "The Cambridge Companion of Epicureansim" (2009), which is included in the "Suggestions for Further Reading" section of Professor Austin's book.

This is an interesting discussion, but I still wonder what can be done to bring Epicureanism to the attention of more people, so that they at least have the opportunity to find out about it. Should I try to create and post Epicurean memes on social media? Should I launch an Epicurean blog somewhere? (I ran a search for "Epicurean" to see if there are any such blogs on Substack, and all of the ones I could find with the word "Epicurean" in the title were food blogs!)

That's a comforting thought from the man himself!

But I'm not worried about me -- it's a privilege that I finally found Epicureanism. I worry about the people who will never have a chance. Stoicism may be having a moment, but Epicureanism isn't, at least yet.

I went through the forum trying to find the right place to post this, I hope I am correct.

"Self Help Is Like a Vaccine" is not an Epicurean book per se, so let me explain what the book is and why I have posted about it.

Bryan Caplan is an economist, a university professor and a blogger, and he has lately been publishing a series of books that reprint his blog posts, collected together by subject area. This is a collection of some of his advice pieces. I mention Caplan here because as I have mentioned before, I became interested in Epicureanism because Dr. Caplan recommends that everyone read the "Letter to Menoeceus."

In the new book, Caplan recommends that people "repeatedly read" the "Letter to Menoeceus" (in the "Make Your Own Bubble in 10 Easy Steps" essay). He also mentions Epicurus in a couple of other places, including referring to Epicurus as "the great Epicurus."

I like the book, but let me also say something about the main reason I am bringing it up. I discovered Buddhism when I was a teenager, and for decades I read about it, tried meditating on and off, etc. (My favorite Buddhism book is "What the Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula).

Although obviously I have heard about Epicureanism for decades, I did not really discover the philosophy until I ran across one of Capaln's recommendations to read the "Letter to Menoeceus" (he has repeatedly recommended it!), I sat down to read it, and I realized it made a lot of sense. Since then, I have been reading one book after another about Epicureanism (I am currently reading "A Few Days in Athens" by Frances Wright.)

My point is this: I didn't read the "Letter to Menoeceus" until I was in my 60s! If only I had read it earlier!

So I think a lot lately about what we can do to bring Epicureanism to the attention of more people, turning over ideas in my mind. And as i am grateful to Caplan, I feel obliged to let y'all know about his new book.

I would certainly be interested in talking about technology, social media, etc. Please include me if you decide to go ahead with a meeting.

Have you heard of Nostr? It's a new social media platform that is supposed to be impossible to censor:

Can Nostr make Twitter’s dreams come true?

Twitter's founder says Nostr is “100 percent what we wanted”—an open, ownerless network.

reason.com

Nostr seems interesting to me and I have been trying to set up an account there, although to be honest it's relatively hard. I do worry I spend too much time on social media as it is: I am on Facebook, I am on X.com (three accounts), I have a Blue Sky account I don't use very often and I also am on Mastodon.

I do know of it and I do plan to read it. It looks very interesting!

Emily Austin's book is my favorite, too, and I also kind of like Epicurus and the Pleasant Life. Hiram Crespo's Tending the Epicurean Garden is kind of up and down for me, but it has its moments.But I also wanted to put in a good word for a book I just finished, Epicureanism by Tim O'Keefe, which has a good overview of the whole philosophy and has a big section on the ethics. It's not a very long book, but it is definitely a work of philosophy, written for people with a serious interest, although it does seem to be aimed at undergraduates.

One of my favorite historians is Christopher Beckwith, a provocative but also very interesting scholar who likes to write particularly about Eurasia and the "Silk Road." I just finished his book Empires of the Silk Road.

One of Beckwith's central ideas in the book is about the comitatus, a unit in warfare which Beckwith says was central to the armed warriors of very many different groups, including Scythians and Germans. The comitatus were the "friends" or "companions" of the king, who were expected to remain loyal to the king and to be rewarded by him. In particular (as described, for example, by Tacitus in The Germania) it was considered a complete disgrace if the leader fell in battle and any of his companions survived; they were expected to defend him to death and, if necessary, die with him. Anyone who survived was infamous for the the rest of his life. (As a quick aside, his would seem to shed light on the famous "last stand" of Leonidas and the 300 at Themopylae).

Compare with Vatican Sayings 56-57: "The wise man feels no more pain when he is tortured than when his friend is tortured and will die on his behalf; for if he betrays his friend, his entire life will be confounded and utterly upset because of a lack of confidence." (I am quoting from The Epicurus Reader by Inwood and Gerson, which I bought because Emily Austin recommended it.)

Anyway, all this is background, because I wanted to share a quote from Empires of the Silk Road. In a section suggesting that Central Eurasians influenced Chinese and Greek Philosophy, Beckwith writes, "Do the social and religious ideas of Central Eurasians, including the importance of friendship and the beliefs behind the comitatus, imply philosophical positions or interests, such as the quest for happiness, or the perfect state?"

He doesn't mention Epicureanism specifically, but it sure would seem to apply to the particular Greek philosophy we are interested in. Do any of y'all (correct English plural of "you," in Oklahoma and in the South) know of anyone else who has talked about the possible connection between the comitatus and the Epicurean idea of friendship? Beckwith kind of tosses it out there and moves on, but it seemed interesting to me.

Wanted to make sure everyone had a chance to see this interesting podcast interview with Nat Friedman on the Vesuvius scrolls project:

Interview w/ Nat Friedman on the Mysteries of the Scrolls

We are on the cusp of a New Renaissance

costofglory.substack.com

Audio is at the top, scroll down for a transcript. The project is not just a matter of sticking some money out there and waiting for someone to claim it; Friedman has been very active in managing the project.

Thought there might be some interest in this interview with classicist Mary Beard, from the New  York Times magazine:

I don’t know if this is novel to you, but in the last few years there has been a real resurgence ofpopular interest in Stoic philosophyThanks to the popularization efforts of, among others, groups like Modern Stoicism, the philosophy entrepreneur Ryan Holiday (author of “The Obstacle Is the Way”) and a wealth of Stoicism-themed podcasts. — why’d you just roll your eyes?

All to the good when people are interested in the ancient world, but this is one of the more mystifying bits of interest: clichéd self-help from a philosophy that, if you looked at it really hard, was nasty, fatalistic, bordering on fascist.

But what’s your hunch about why people are being drawn to Stoicism?

What comes out in Marcus Aurelius particularly is rather clichéd thoughts: Never take a major decision when your mind is troubled. We can all agree with clichés like that. And they come with the rubber stamp of great antiquity because they were written by an emperor — an emperor who was about as brutal in massacring the enemy as Julius Caesar. But we tend to forget that side of him because he’s a bearded “philosopher.” It’s not very salutary to look at your Amazon ratings, but I always feel terribly pleased — though it doesn’t happen often — when I’m higher up than Marcus Aurelius.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to make a suggestion. I will save this link and use it to find more books to read.

By coincidence I am currently also read a book about U.S. history, "The Vineyard of Liberty" by James MacGregor Burns, and on Page 170 there's a description of dinner at the White House: "Mr. Jefferson said that the Epicurean philosophy came nearest to the truth, in his opinion, of any ancient system of philosophy, but that it had been misnunderstood and misrepresented. He wished he work of Gassendi concerning it had been translated ... I mentioned Lucretius. He said that was only a part -- only the natural philosophy. But the moral philosophy was only to be found in Gassendi." (That's John Quincy Adams who is being quoted).

I am sorry I have not checked in very much at this Forum, but I intend to be better about that.

My main avenue for learning about Epicureanism has been through reading books. Here is what I have read so far:

Tending the Epicurean Garden, Hiram Crespo.
The Epicurus Reader: Selected Writings and Testimonia, Epicurus, Brad Inwood, Lloyd P. Gerson
Reading Lucretius in the Renaissance, Ada Palmer.
Living for Pleasure: An Epicurean Guide to Life, Emily
Austin.
How to Be an Epicurean: The Ancient Art of Living Well, Catherine Wilson.
Epicureanism: A Very Short Introduction, Catherine Wilson.
Epicurus and His Philosophy, Norman W. DeWitt.
EPICURUS and THE PLEASANT LIFE: A Philosophy of Nature Kindle Edition– November 30, 2022 - Revised and Expanded 2nd Edition, Haris Dimitriadis
Swerve, Stephen Greenblatt.

(I tried to read the William Wallace book but just couldn't get into it).

Except for the Greenblatt, which I read years ago, I have read all the others in the last few years after reading the "Letter to Menoeceus" and thereby becoming really interested in Epicureanism.

I am particularly interested in how to apply Epicureanism to my actual life, so I found the Austin, Crespo and Dimitriadis particularly useful. The Austin book is my favorite and I've already read it twice and will likely read it again soon. The Crespo had some features I didn't care for -- I particularly disliked all the talk of Epicurean "therapy" -- but I thought the chapter on the four remedies was quite good. The Dimitriadis has its moments for me.

I have put Tim O'Keefe's book on hold at the library, simply because Emily Austin recommends it in her book, and I plan to finally read a translation of Lucretius. But what else should I try?

Logged on to make sure everyone heard about this. This link has a lot of substance:

Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the scrolls!

The 2000-year-old scroll discusses music, food, and how to enjoy life’s pleasures.

scrollprize.org

I blogged about this today:

Hidden ancient texts are coming to light

There's been a big breakthrough in the efforts to decipher and read the library of charred scrolls that were left after the eruption of Mo...

www.rawillumination.net

I want to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving, and I'm grateful for this forum. I did a Thanksgiving post on my blog today and pointed to the New Epicurean website:

Happy Thanksgiving

Photo by krakenimages on Unsplash Happy Thanksgiving! I am grateful for this blog and the friends I have made by starting it years ago. I a...

www.rawillumination.net

Sorry I haven't logged on lately.

I wanted to report that the Vesuvius Challenge, the effort to read hundreds of charred scrolls, apparently has reached an important milestone. As many of these scrolls apparently are Epicurean writings, this is of particular importance to our community. Apparently there is a potential for some other lost classical documents to be recovered.

AI reads text from ancient Herculaneum scroll for the first time

Machine-learning technique reveals Greek words in CT scans of rolled-up papyrus.

www.nature.com

I'm afraid it's just a coincidence; I had not seen the thread.

I don't know how many of you are familiar with Standard Ebooks, but it is a nonprofit which produces carefully edited, nicely produced editions of classic public domain texts. When I am looking for a public domain book, I generally look there first. Completely unrelated to my interest in Epicureanism, I love Sinclair Lewis, and the site has four of his classic novels.

Anyway, I am on the email list which announces new Standard Ebook titles each month and one of the new ones for August is

Marius the Epicurean by Walter Pater, which as the title suggests is an historical novel about a man in the Roman Empire who is particularly interested in Epicureanism but also explores other philosophies; the Wikipedia article on the book may be useful for anyone trying to decide whether to read it.

Amazon's send to Kindle feature now supports ePub, one of Standard Ebooks' file formats, and there are nice ereaders for smartphones, such as ReadEra, which is my favorite.

Thanks, Cassius, I have saved the URL for backup epicureanfriends.com and I hope others will take the precaution to save the link.