Happy Birthday, Kalosyni and Joshua!
Posts by Pacatus
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Wouldn't appeal to some common prolepsis (on the question of gods’ existence) be subject to the ad populum fallacy?
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Here is a poetic rendition I did for myself sometime back:
No fear of gods, ghosts or fates;
nor death’s bare naught that awaits.Simple pleasures come easy to gain;
a happy soul serves, travails to wane.The last line is intended to reflect Epicurus' own tapping into memories and his friends whilst in great physical pain. But I still think that line might be improved upon (whilst retaining the rhyme
). Suggestions welcome.{The transitive usage of "wane" is, I think, archaic.}
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Happy Twentieth everyone!
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I came upon this fable recently during some cursory browsing, and thought it might also be helpful for others …
A Fable
Once upon a time, a woman moved to a cave in the mountains to study with a guru. She wanted, she said, to learn everything there was to know. The guru supplied her with stacks of books and left her alone so she could study.
Every morning, the guru returned to the cave to monitor the woman's progress. In his hand, he carried a heavy wooden cane. Each morning, he asked her the same question: “Have you learned everything there is to know yet?" Each morning, her answer was the same. "No." she said, "I haven't." The guru would then strike her over the head with his cane.
This scenario repeated itself for months. One day the guru entered the cave, asked the same question, heard the same answer, and raised his cane to hit her in the same way, but the woman grabbed the cane from the guru, stopping his assault in midair.
Relieved to end the daily batterings but fearing reprisal, the woman looked up at the guru. To her surprise, the guru smiled. "Congratulations," he said, "you have graduated. You know now everything you need to know."
"How's that"? the woman asked.
"You have learned that you will never learn everything there is to know," he replied. "And you have learned how to stop the pain.”
– As told by Melody Beattie in Codependent No More
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Of course, no one here would condone or affirm such harsh “therapy” in reality (nor would Beattie). But, recognizing it as a fable, one might see where circumstances (and people) in one’s life have been that harsh: demanding what you could not deliver – and punishing you for your failures to measure up, or fit into the “proper” box. (And perhaps, sometimes we ourselves collaborated in that, because of what we were taught and didn’t know better.)
Till you see through the games, and learn how to stop the pain.
Seems to me that is what, at bottom, Epicurus was trying – with his gentler therapy – to impart. Then we can begin to live a simpler eudaimonic life in serenity and pleasure.
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The writing is: “Epicurean Stability (eustatheia): A Philosophical Approach of Stress Management”, by Christos Yapijakis and George P. Chrousos, medical professionals teaching at National and Kapodistrian University of Athens, Greece.
Thank you, Patrikios . I found a PDF version of that essay here: https://societyofepicurus.com/wp-content/upl…-Eustatheia.pdf
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“As a practical matter it seems to me that Epicurus was right that it would be impossible for us to live happily if we did not organize our lives as if we are confident that we have some amount of free agency. … That has to be good enough and I judge it to be good enough - at least for me.”
– Cassius post #4 above.
Yes. And the fact that our agency / ability to choose may be constrained by circumstances or our own abilities at any given moment is no refutation.
Even under a regime of strict determination, that very regime, it seems to me, includes for us the near-universal perception that we have such agency – and the practical necessity that we behave accordingly in order to live happily.
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I have always had the most difficulty with that final line of the tetrapharmakos. Not all pain is “easy” to bear – not for me, or likely anyone. The comments about context are, I think, on the mark. And the context, for me, is Epicurean practices (therapies) to alleviate that pain as much as possible – to make it bearable. Epicurus on his death bed provides an example. And that, I think, is the superiority of Epicurean philosophy (therapy) over the Cyrenaics: recognition that mental pleasures (e.g., focus on memories) can be called upon to alleviate physical pain. And that is something that I have been able to do.
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Way of the Seasons
These blackened sunflowers flaunted the sun
before fall’s freezes their yellows darkened –
their beauty not by time, but cold, undone.
Never can their color now be harkenedback to bloom. Charred stems stay to mark the day
when earthly sunlight blossomed from the ground –
but winter soon will wither them. The way
of the seasons by none can be unwound,though in our stubborn reason we pretend
to rearrange the plot that plots our fate –
yet in every beginning, an end
is begun. So, Love – let us love, though late:perhaps our passion will spin us to spring,
and in our pulse another summer sing.~ ~ ~
Reference to "fate" and the closing lines are intended to reflect (perhaps among other things) VS 09: "Necessity is an evil, but there is no necessity to live under the control of necessity."
We sometimes included some tall sunflowers in our kitchen garden at Terrapin Branch.
(Elizabethan sonnet)
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“Hedonophobia is an excessive fear or aversion to obtaining pleasure. … Hedonophobics have a type of guilt about feeling pleasure or experiencing pleasurable sensations, due to a cultural background or training (either religious or cultural) that eschews pleasurable pursuits as frivolous or inappropriate. Oftentimes, social guilt is connected to having fun while others are suffering, and is common for those who feel undeserving or have self-worth issues to work through. Also, there is a sense that they should not be given pleasures due to their lack of performance in life, and because they have done things that are deemed ‘wrong’ or ‘undeserving.’"
Today is the first that I heard of such a thing (in some random reading).
But I have known at least one person (who came immediately to mind) who had a fairly strong and insistent version of this. She was a social activist (whom I knew from my own, lesser, participation in some of the same issues), who is a lay-member of a Roman Catholic Benedictine group.
Anyone else have any experience with this?
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Happy Birthday, Cassius!
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I’ve been muddling over this thought experiment since Kalosyni presented it. I think that the way it is presented – particularly the liberating vacation metaphor – cuts right to the bone in terms of how we make decisions today in the face of our impending (no matter our age or what we might expect) death and dissolution (including our memories). Maybe my age resonates with how I think about it.
Don ‘s dementia take is not so far off the mark I think, but I look at it the other way round from what I understood his perspective to be: suppose I were diagnosed with an early-stage but progressive dementia which is likely to be total at the end of a year (and I might not even recognize those friends, or what they are talking about).
I’m still “muddling” – especially since Kalosyni’s experiment is cast in Epicurean terms, rather than some radically presentist Cyrenaic frame. Let’s just say that, for me, it is seriously thought-provoking.
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And it reminds me of an old (1965 - 1968, when I was in high school
) TV series called "Run for Your Life," starring Ben Gazzara. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_for_Your_Life_(TV_series). -
the Indigo Girls "Closer I Am To Fine"
Oh, Don I missed this till just now. Years ago, toward the end of a particularly hard time in my life, my daughter gave me an album of the Indigo Girls, including this song. It still brings a lump to my throat.
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If we’re going back in time, this was released when I was two years out of high school. The lyrics are hardly straightforward (not necessarily a deficit in poetry) – but I still cannot listen to this without clapping / dancing / drumming …
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I would expect any of our readers in GA or NC or DC or the Florida panhandle might be without power - at least that's our situation!
Here's hoping all remain well.
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If it were not for librarians – and other free researchers – such as yourself, I long ago would have been lost in the closely closeted (or corested?) strictures of those professors, philosophers and priests who permitted no thinking outside their – corsets. (“Why are you reading that?!”)
From my academic student days till now. Thank you.
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Bearing the Weight
The axe and maul are heavier,
and splitting a harder chore –
but winter will hardly wait.Muscle-ache, and stinging sweat
pouring from open pores,
mock me for my aging state.Chilling air keeps me at my task
as gray light grows darker,
until I am cloaked in slate –reminded as I limp away,
that I will never again
walk with an even gait.That is the fate of years,
and not to be mourned –
just the way that I bear the weight.~ ~ ~
I originally posted this poem on my Wall here. It was published in a book of my (then collected) poems some years ago.
What it reminds me of now is the pleasure/pain tradeoff. I took great pleasure in splitting and stacking several cords of wood each year for the winter fires – though it always became physically painful. I do walk with a slight limp (and have for decades) from an old factory injury: “not to be mourned – just the way that I bear the weight.”
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He was setting the playing field so we can *begin* the analysis of how we spend our time,
That just struck me. "Setting the playing field!" Yes!
We still have to play. Nothing in this life around that.
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I relate to your question. Even in my elder years, I seem to spend too much time in the lower region of your diagram. I have learned (a lot of it on here! but elsewhere as well) perspectives for dealing with that. But, as Ram Das once quipped: “The most difficult thing is to remember – to remember!”
So – eventually (in my ADH[D] labyrinth*) I remember to come back. And sometimes I do find myself in the upper region of your diagram.
A sports analogy: Athletes want to get into “the zone” – where all they do seems easy, even effortless. But that “zone” does not always seem accessible, let alone permanent – then the athlete deals as best they can.
So: I’ve had those moments. I expect to have them again. But, till then, I’ll deal with the “Epicurean calculus” as best I can – and move on.
I doubt any of that is helpful. So I’ll just wish you well and all wellness, for what that might be worth.
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* As I have noted before, I reject that final “D” – it’s not a disability, just the way my hypertexting brain works. Sometimes for the better …
