Posts by AxA

Love that food board! I wonder if there's a cookbook dedicated to Epicurean-style eating? (hidden among the many cookbooks that use the word "Epicurean" to mean "gourmet") If not that would be a fun project.

Quote from Cassius

Quote from AxA

Or even ancient "clickbait" lol

That's a good joke but I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

We have the article here (professor Gellar-Goad) which argues that "The sun is the size it appears to be" was intenionally phrased as a "shibboleth" or litmus test of proper understanding.

"Death is nothing to us" is pretty similar in impact, not to mention "pleasure is the absence of pain." And we have in DIogenes Laertius that Epicurus was known to say spicy things about other philosophers.

Add to that the statement from Cicero's on the nature of the gods that "Hereupon Velleius began, in the confident manner (I need not say) that is customary with Epicureans, afraid of nothing so much as lest he should appear to have doubts about anything. One would have supposed he had just come down from the assembly of the gods in the intermundane spaces of Epicurus!"

So it's entirely possible that certain phrasings where intentionally presented in controversial ways to create what some people call "teachable moments" where you're shocked into looking at things in a new way.

One thing the Epicureans were not was shy, retiring, wallflowers who drew back from the first hint of controversy!

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I like this attitude of fearless playfulness. Seems to be something about the Epicurean perspective that brings out this feeling.

I like the admonition (VS41) that we must "philosophize, laugh, and manage our business" all together. Might even think of it as a triangle that needs all three sides to be maintained. Sound philosophy, prudent practical operations, and an active sense of humour. Whenever I become too dull and serious I know I've gone off somewhere.

Thank you all for the feedback!

I had no idea that there were such reservations about the tetrapharmakos formulation. I'm going to keep it, but in introducing it I'm going to emphasize how it's a highly simplified "kindergarten" version of the philosophy. Or even ancient "clickbait" lol

From my understanding of the PD/VS parallels, PD1 and VS1 match, PD2 and VS2 match, but PD3 doesn't have a VS parallel, and PD4 matches VS3.

For the VS4 translation: I'm going to switch "disregard" to "despise". "Disregard" just sounds too dismissive for pain, too much like the word "ignore". I believe "despise" in antique usage meant something very close to "disregard"/"ignore", but it also has a kind of noble "rising above" and "holding in contempt" flavour to it which I think would be more meaningful to anyone who is actually in pain.

Kalosyni, your brochure looks great. I like the garden motifs like with the vines. I want to collect imagery like this, make a collection of anything that brings out that Epicurean Garden feeling. I see some good images in the gallery here, but I'd like to see more of these kinds of "flavour" images that do not necessarily reference specifically Epicurean things but support the overall "vibe".

I'm going to change "Trust your senses over your thoughts" to "Trust your senses over your theories". "Thoughts" might be too general and suggest we should doubt our own minds in general, whereas I think the contrast of senses vs theories makes it clear what we should base our thoughts on.

Here's my draft brochure for the in-person Eikas this weekend. As a tri-fold brochure it starts on the right panel of page 1, then all of page 2, then finishes on the left and middle panels of page 1.

Curious to hear your feedback and especially if anyone feels I'm misrepresenting Epicurus's views.

Quote from Patrikios

Quote from AxA

In the Youtube video player, first click the "CC" icon to enable captions.

My YouTube player shows "Subtitles/closed captions unavailable".

Hopefully, the subtitles will show up in the completed videos (after the symposium).

Yes, it looks like in this case the subtitles became available as soon as the livestream was complete (same link).

So for any of these videos, the procedure would be:

(1) If you are able to activate Youtube subtitles: first click the "CC" icon to enable captions. Then click the gear icon (settings), choose "Subtitles/CC", choose "Auto-translate", and then choose your target language.

(2) If you are unable to activate Youtube subtitles: open Google Translate alongside the video (in another window or on another device). Select Greek as the input language and click the microphone to start listening. Then play the video.

I only caught a few minutes of the symposium but it was fun to see such an event put on.

Sunday stream link

Quote from Patrikios

Quote from AxA

set them to translate directly

thanks for the suggestion. If there is any explanation to get YouTube to translate directly, let us know.

Using the 2-device methos with Google Translate helped to get a sense of the presentations today.

In the Youtube video player, first click the "CC" icon to enable captions. Then click the gear icon (settings), choose "Subtitles/CC", choose "Auto-translate", and then choose your target language.

Also looks like they have captions enabled on the video, so we can set them to translate directly rather than using Google Translate separately.

Looks like they ran the Saturday event under the Sunday livestream. We'll see whether they then use the Saturday stream for tomorrow, or else use a new video link.

Quote from Cassius

Quote from AxA

Looking at previous editions, the sound quality is good enough that Google Translate in transcribe mode is able to do a pretty good job.

Which presumably means we won't get much out of watching "Live" but that shortly after it's published to youtube they will do a speech to text, and maybe have an English version of that?

Lately on Youtube I have noticed that some videos that I am sure were done in only english now have a foreign language audio option- 0r at least an auto-generated text translation.

Is anyone following the technology here closely enough to clarify?

From what I can see from their youtube channel, even all their previous symposia are still without subtitles.

What I mean is, you can play the youtube video on one device (such as computer), while on another device (such as phone or tablet) run Google Translate set to "transcribe mode" to process continuous audio. Google Translate will hear the Greek being said live on the youtube video and output English translation captions.

Looks like you can even do it on the same device, using Google Translate web version. You select Greek as the input language and click the microphone to start listening. Then in another window you play the video. The web version appears to limit you to 5000 characters at a time, at which point you would have to refresh the page. Whereas in the phone or tablet app version of Google Translate, you can enter "transcribe mode" which should allow continuous transcription.

These appear to be scheduled livestream links for the conference:

Saturday:

Sunday:

Here are some of the earlier editions, chopped into playlists:

Κήπος Αθηνών

Η Επικούρεια Φιλοσοφία σήμερα, από τον ΚΗΠΟ ΑΘΗΝΩΝ. Friends of Epicurean Philosophy GARDEN OF ATHENS - www.epicuros.gr

www.youtube.com

Unfortunately there seems to be a complete lack of subtitles. Looking at previous editions, the sound quality is good enough that Google Translate in transcribe mode is able to do a pretty good job.

I can imagine a possible consequence of my permissive approach, that it ends up with a bunch of people arguing against everything Epicurus said, and these arguments end up taking up the whole conversation. I imagine that might be what's happening online, and what led to the strict enforcement you recommend.

If this happens, I believe what I will have to do is divide into two groups, this one open to the public, and another one a more personal gathering of friends who agree at least enough to not be arguing all the time about basic positions. But I think the way to that is through this more open approach. I won't be able to assemble my Garden of Friends until I meet them.

Quote from Kalosyni

AxA you may want to check out this section of the forum (if you haven't already):

Outlines, Guides, And Maps

I missed that page. Thanks. I'll use this to help assemble my handout for the first meeting.

My idea for the first meeting is to present some of the major teachings of Epicurus and otherwise have a free discussion. If it strays too far into unhelpful and irrelevant topics, I'll have to bring it back, and if there are participants who insist on sidetracking the discussion I'll have to control them. This will certainly be a challenge, the same any discussion moderator faces.

I don't feel a need to strictly enforce Epicurean positions. I see this as a free exchange of ideas and discussion of them on their own merits. I find that Epicurus has many excellent ideas and I want to share them and discuss them with others, including those who disagree with some or even all of them.

I wonder if the strict doctrinal enforcement here is a consequence of being an internet forum. There are just so many trolls and discussion hijackers that it takes strong policing to keep a good online discussion going. It may turn out to be this way in person as well, but I see the default state as being a free discussion with Epicurean philosophy as a "home base" to keep returning to. Policing of positions is something I only wish to do to the minimum necessary to keep the discussion fruitful for all.

Quote from Cassius

AxA check this thread for some past discussion on Meetup group possibilities:

Thread

Planning And Execution of A Local Group

Epicurean Meetings and Conventions

New: Meetup Handouts

Update: As of 2/10/25 as I am writing this, it is my understanding that the Sydney Australia Epicurean meetup group is no longer operational. I have left the links below in case you want to look for prior versions of the page, but at present i am not aware of any operational Epicurean Meetup groups.

In most parts of the world, there are at present very few opportunities for regular people who are interested in Epicurus to get together to…

Cassius

January 8, 2018 at 6:58 AM

Great discussion. Exactly the kind of experience I want to learn from.

The links to the DokuWiki pages seem to be broken.

The latest internet archive I can find for the Sydney meetup is 2021, and its recent events appear to have been in a “virtual garden”:

Sydney Epicurus Philosophy Garden (Sydney, Australia)

The purpose of this Group is to explore the philosophy of Epicurus through discussion and the enjoyment of the simple pleasures of life such as friendship, as…

web.archive.org

I like this statement: “it is probable that almost any metropolitan area of any size would support a Sydney-style meetup group if even one or two people act with determination to keep the meetings on track and recognize that attendance will likely remain small for an extended period.”

This is what I’m going on. The minimum is 2 people per metropolis willing to meet once a month to talk Epicurean philosophy. That seems doable.

I also like this statement: "the academic world ... has labeled Epicurus as a philosophy for losers, misfits, loners, and recluses." I can work with that. Sounds like labels for anyone who doesn't place high enough value in social approval and honours. I have no interest in directly fighting that narrative. I'd rather embrace it with a laugh, and live the way I want to among my friends without regard for mainstream approval. The happier we live, the more hollow anyone else's disapproval becomes.

I like this idea. I've been thinking about a one-page handout to bring to the in-person gathering. I would want it to contain at least the four-fold cure and three classes of desires. Probably some other of the principal doctrines, but stated as simply as possible. And a few of the common misunderstandings of the teaching.

Al-Hakiim von Grof, I really like the back of this brochure with the four principles and Epicurus quote. I might use something like this.

I think I'll learn a lot from this first attempt at a live meetup. I'll have to manage the conversation, make sure it's not just generic chat, and prevent anyone (including myself) from talking too much.

Have any of you held in-person gatherings in the past?

I don't have any particular background in philosophy other than a broad general education. I would say my interest is very practical. While discussion of abstract ideas is a pleasure in itself, my main interest is the mechanics of living a good life. Epicurus's perspective has helped me to clarify that I have an excess of anxieties about unnecessary matters, and a deficiency of good friendships.

Thank you all for the warm welcome!

Don, you mention live events. Do you mean the online events in the Upcoming Events list?

I look forward to attending the next First Monday gathering.

I'm new to the study of Epicurus and have found the teachings of this school very refreshing. In particular the appreciation for friendship and simple good living, and a relief from abstract notions of virtue and "ideals".

I'm surprised how few in-person Epicurean gatherings I can find. I'm starting an in-person meetup group in Toronto to hold Eikas gatherings. Anyone know of others in other cities?

Epicurean Philosophy Toronto | Meetup

Epicurus’s Garden was an ancient Greek school of philosophy whose influence has been felt through the centuries even though few are familiar with it…

www.meetup.com